From lojban+bncCNTPpI2KGxD59fHsBBoEhhDofg@googlegroups.com Wed Apr 06 07:39:07 2011 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Q7Tss-0005kJ-EZ; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 07:39:07 -0700 Received: by vws2 with SMTP id 2sf840153vws.16 for ; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 07:38:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis :x-cloudmark-score:x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=5pLjhMysGkgcD9QBudP6UWXy3q9Q0yS6GmmOhzv1qiM=; b=kIzh62qAtEi9m5vNBzq3jG+H9gSfNhGf7EXVgg931SozVhF3eG3wltJk4862Otn9Ij j63bF8AczoS295tiLEE+x+p6Z5ijr5AFpR8GBRCtY3Bg+Mgejh72uPz5xffrlTQIxrnL XsLZ8gJBLh89J8phIFl0jOqXYYM6cxP3F6PJk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; b=K45umzE4XSkhf7GOPsi4qybXahGrDhdu0oRwYCqHybyP7zXknnUZxgzSVzKNIeKEge 5l4g0FxXAEVHxj/bdWJCP5AJBAnjkrcQ17mP5AP5Pxng/Tl5lUF+fiRuWMr8/8W4RFeh z1StJBVYxANhnLOD0eBgLszJgCUJz2a5iC6ac= Received: by 10.220.44.208 with SMTP id b16mr130463vcf.2.1302100729952; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 07:38:49 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.100.195 with SMTP id z3ls330173vcn.2.p; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 07:38:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.90.208 with SMTP id by16mr213458vdb.11.1302100727866; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 07:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.90.208 with SMTP id by16mr213457vdb.11.1302100727853; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 07:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.123]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id k2si41343vdt.1.2011.04.06.07.38.46; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 07:38:46 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.123 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.123; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=Nm3SJc7L3wlcojC9snsyzORkYWw1JOu3BeZkTeIwPUk= c=1 sm=0 a=6ti_TD8eFm8A:10 a=uscH1GoYZSgA:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=Q9fys5e9bTEA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:17 a=po3CATzGRTqFm5e1XMMA:9 a=yUGB9ViJIs84v4CURXAA:7 a=PUjeQqilurYA:10 a=084TfUWvaJK0JlfS:21 a=qB4N-w-GSWpv6lVP:21 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.176.118.168 Received: from [75.176.118.168] ([75.176.118.168:51766] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 51/D6-11439-5FA7C9D4; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 14:38:45 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59DC617A59 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2011 10:38:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: I love Lojban's approach, but what's the deal with place tags? Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 10:38:04 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <0a74da06-07cf-4b52-a329-ed0ebbae2f5b@u8g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201104061038.10160.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.123 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Tuesday 05 April 2011 12:45:08 Jonathan Jones wrote: > FA merely marks which place in the defined place structure if being filled > by the following sumti. {fa} always marks the x1 of the bridi. You have to > know the place structure of the selbri in order to know what relation is > bring applied to the sumti following FA. I don't know Turkish, but I > believe that language's tags are more like our BAI. All natlangs that I know of have a small number of slots for verb arguments. English has, in general, three, which are given in the order 1,3,2 (subject, indirect object, direct object). "My father (1) gave me (3) the ball (2)." ("Bet" has four, the fourth, which comes after the second, being a proposition.) Turkish has six cases; I don't know which can be used as arguments, but here's an example: "Babam-0 ban-a top-u verdi." The null ending ("-m" is a possessive) marks nominative; "-a" marks dative; "-u" marks accusative. Lojban brivla can have any number of arguments. No gismu has more than five, but lujvo can have more. Some formations, such as "-ria" and "-gau", cause all the arguments to be shifted to the next higher number and a new argument inserted as the first. This is unlike natlangs. So from "le patfu cu dunda lo bolci mi", one can construct "le patfu le mamta cu dudmau lo bolci mi". Pierre -- li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.