From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhCQ8__sBBoEUnXM1g@googlegroups.com Fri Apr 08 23:16:05 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Q8RSg-0000pV-Nv; Fri, 08 Apr 2011 23:16:04 -0700 Received: by fxm14 with SMTP id 14sf3245548fxm.16 for ; Fri, 08 Apr 2011 23:15:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=lEjkWyJlrWkKmkji0V3Qyw2tXCuEJCFyEW2Ps0CoBC8=; b=Bn0IPtVaszgFb8Z9324TYYOzbCc/PFfo2e+8I+kOPFrwwhdFxX5kzw29yJ+ppp6SjM WKHbs1QA/QpP/so94GCt+Q2x2xGC0eNfUDtxVmHPmlgQhvIGDnbwMurJAIe/m59BGBgI Bw9GcQTAjFmBn4WREaTkHF1Mj27GATU+CDVrw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=34nnjyUM6Njg27lomqlN7XC/fJMGBvoV7LwvYwXiZA5D3PqHpRYC02sMXtCPc0aaND IEx+GifPolmVmzngz7Pyfcfdc9iwwH9+Wt20bMyXEGlkK8J0a9AUJlX2ktYGJqI7T9P1 ARneoEBGAuvhomRxrsfe0YtPtqNcVLrAkI/qU= Received: by 10.223.55.149 with SMTP id u21mr425327fag.46.1302329744662; Fri, 08 Apr 2011 23:15:44 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.223.22.74 with SMTP id m10ls644041fab.2.p; Fri, 08 Apr 2011 23:15:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.148.13 with SMTP id n13mr424287fav.12.1302329743656; Fri, 08 Apr 2011 23:15:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.148.13 with SMTP id n13mr424286fav.12.1302329743628; Fri, 08 Apr 2011 23:15:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f41.google.com (mail-bw0-f41.google.com [209.85.214.41]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j3si332733fax.9.2011.04.08.23.15.42 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 08 Apr 2011 23:15:42 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.41; Received: by mail-bw0-f41.google.com with SMTP id 17so3375885bwz.28 for ; Fri, 08 Apr 2011 23:15:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.224.2 with SMTP id im2mr2763612bkb.103.1302329742300; Fri, 08 Apr 2011 23:15:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.116.147 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Apr 2011 23:15:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <0a74da06-07cf-4b52-a329-ed0ebbae2f5b@u8g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> <637d0745ed534b12dfc5867e00c83107@mail.twey.co.uk> <201104082010.50455.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 00:15:42 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: I love Lojban's approach, but what's the deal with place tags? From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=485b3970d06eab97ba04a0764509 --485b3970d06eab97ba04a0764509 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Firstly, Lojban is very permissive with the pronunciation of it's phonemes, so I'm willing to bet that "=C9=90" is a perfectly reasonable pronunciation= of ybu. Secondly, that's exactly how I pronounce those vowels as well, possibl= y allowing for slight differences due to accent. On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 11:47 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > Ok, if "cut" and "nut" are using "=C9=90" could you give an example of an > english word that uses the schwa that we say lojban "y" sounds like? I w= as > under the impression that "=C9=90" (whatever that is) is what the lojban = "y" > sounds like. > > god-damnit ivo, just when I think I have the lojban pronounciation figure= d > out you go and throw it all in to doubt for me. > > For the record, my lojban vowels are as follows: > a -> the "a" in english "father" > e -> the "e" in english "bet" > i - > the "ee" in english "beet" > o -> the "oa" in english "boat" > u -> the "oo" in english "root" > y -> the "u" in english "butter", "nut", "cut", "rut", "gutter", and the > "o" in "mother" and "love". > > If these aren't proper lojban pronunciations, please correct me. > > On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 12:17 AM, Ivo Doko wrote: > >> If you pronounce "cut" and "nut" like this >> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/En-us-cut.ogg >> and this >> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/En-us-nut.ogg >> respectively, then you're not pronouncing them like {kyt} and {nyt} >> ([k=C9=99t] and [n=C9=99t]), but more like {kat} and {nat} ([k=C9=90t] a= nd [n=C9=90t] >> (international IPA)). If you're not pronouncing them similarly to how >> they're pronounced in those recordings then I would be most grateful >> if one of you could record him-/herself pronouncing either "cut" or >> "nut" or both and upload the recording somewhere so that I can hear >> your pronunciation. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu d= o zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --485b3970d06eab97ba04a0764509 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Firstly, Lojban is very permissive with the pronunciation of it's phone= mes, so I'm willing to bet that "=C9=90" is a perfectly reaso= nable pronunciation of ybu. Secondly, that's exactly how I pronounce th= ose vowels as well, possibly allowing for slight differences due to accent.=

On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 11:47 PM, Luke Bergen= <lukeabergen= @gmail.com> wrote:
Ok, if "cut" and "nut" are using "=C9=90" cou= ld you give an example of an english word that uses the schwa that we say l= ojban "y" sounds like? =C2=A0I was under the impression that &quo= t;=C9=90" (whatever that is) is what the lojban "y" sounds l= ike.

god-damnit ivo, just when I think I have the lojban pronounc= iation figured out you go and throw it all in to doubt for me.
For the record, my lojban vowels are as follows:
a -> the "a" in english "father"
e -&g= t; the "e" in english "bet"
i - > the &quo= t;ee" in english "beet"
o -> the "oa"= in english "boat"
u -> the "oo" in english "root"
y -&g= t; the "u" in english "butter", "nut", "= cut", "rut", "gutter", and the "o" in &q= uot;mother" and "love".

If these aren't proper lojban=C2=A0pronunciations, = please correct me.

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 12:17 AM, Ivo Doko <ivo.doko@gm= ail.com> wrote:
If you pronounce "cut" and "n= ut" like this
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/En-u= s-cut.ogg
and this
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/En-u= s-nut.ogg
respectively, then you're not pronouncing them like {kyt} and {nyt}
([k=C9=99t] and [n=C9=99t]), but more like {kat} and {nat} ([k=C9=90t] and = [n=C9=90t]
(international IPA)). If you're not pronouncing them similarly to how they're pronounced in those recordings then I would be most grateful if one of you could record him-/herself pronouncing either "cut" = or
"nut" or both and upload the recording somewhere so that I can he= ar
your pronunciation.

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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be = denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I= am your father. :D )

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