From lojban+bncCPGMg4mHHBDN54HtBBoE0OMmlA@googlegroups.com Sat Apr 09 07:57:35 2011 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Q8ZbO-0001F6-7z; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 07:57:34 -0700 Received: by vws2 with SMTP id 2sf2384051vws.16 for ; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 07:57:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vLB6mSa4+yiwf4zmn5ZAKuE2VNjKQsgqFNshXG9dHUQ=; b=t16nxQlDttvwOhZnrexXI4qEF9dQAP6+9RAvLe2SBd/1b9OX9GXUi8IvJ05F26MYfo S1mqgu88fLGhMKorTiVo0jivjg4+gqGfsnDiODjezU02Kgr8AJBVisbnZTDVanokn2D+ oE8X7yN0NiHbrLxF9hICWv/bMocq1fHYILmVw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=LOjC0l4RLmPtY5LaBnJyYU2UTSrJq/4uafU3fXcC5I+f45/jBTtJj1dLblwiUl6POl YifylFpyJTdJYfpEWh2SG9NySGaEXGrfwIHLC/tIpnqvQorCkbmVEodEaj/uhNTOIg6v 31h26ro3p9PMPt6c5zBuAE0pgCZ7pKSDPyUM4= Received: by 10.220.76.11 with SMTP id a11mr425561vck.17.1302361037894; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 07:57:17 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.113.208 with SMTP id b16ls1426128vcq.0.p; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 07:57:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.73.65 with SMTP id j1mr880619vdv.1.1302361036544; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 07:57:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.73.65 with SMTP id j1mr880617vdv.1.1302361036429; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 07:57:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f43.google.com (mail-vw0-f43.google.com [209.85.212.43]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o28si785207vbn.0.2011.04.09.07.57.15 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 09 Apr 2011 07:57:15 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ivo.doko@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.43 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.43; Received: by mail-vw0-f43.google.com with SMTP id 10so5258443vws.16 for ; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 07:57:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.181.2 with SMTP id ds2mr743016vdc.73.1302361035090; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 07:57:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.60.13 with HTTP; Sat, 9 Apr 2011 07:57:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <0a74da06-07cf-4b52-a329-ed0ebbae2f5b@u8g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> <637d0745ed534b12dfc5867e00c83107@mail.twey.co.uk> <201104082010.50455.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 16:57:14 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: I love Lojban's approach, but what's the deal with place tags? From: Ivo Doko To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: ivo.doko@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of ivo.doko@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=ivo.doko@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 9 April 2011 07:47, Luke Bergen wrote: > o -> the "oa" in english "boat" > y -> the "u" in english "butter", "nut", "cut", "rut", "gutter", and the = "o" > in "mother" and "love". As far as I've been able to gather, all of your pronunciations except for these two are "proper". However, as Jonathan says lojban is very permissive so I doubt anyone would misunderstand you especially since lojban doesn't feature {ou} as a diphthong so pronouncing {o} as [o=CA=8A] (which is what you do) instead of [o], [=C9=94] or [=C9=92] wouldn't create= any ambiguity. FYI, a more "proper" pronunciation of {o} would be like "ou" in "four" or like "o" in "knot" and British English "lot" and "not" ([l=C9=92t] and [n=C9=92t], as opposed to US English [l=C9=91t] and [n=C9=91t]). As for {y}, that one should be [=C9=99], also known as schwa. In English that's the common unstressed pronunciation of the indefinite article "a" (as in "a dog") and is also featured in the unstressed pronunciation of the definite article "the" (which is pronounced [=C3=B0=C9= =99], unless when in front of a word which starts with a vowel in which case it is more commonly pronounced [=C3=B0i] or [=C3=B0i=CB=90] as in "the exam= ple"). Examples of it also include "a" in "general" and both "a"s in "American". It is also the sound you make when you're thinking of what to say next in a conversation (commonly transcribed as "uh..."). --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.