From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRDJ_oLtBBoE4mgGvA@googlegroups.com Sat Apr 09 13:19:39 2011 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Q8ed3-0003YM-H1; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 13:19:39 -0700 Received: by ywg8 with SMTP id 8sf8429434ywg.16 for ; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 13:19:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf :x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id:message-id:x-ymail-osg :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tVDORNIhCf1YO6appm2s6wNAnJyk0TsQa2MPKmwZAYw=; b=ZMK1P/pa3LSMDIHn53VhbN3OkTrPTl9QkaHd4iyIT5ZHqJpZCkvqiieRo4jf3flueH pfiiszjWJM4BLHh1l3ZFRE18Hq1LDxRD0HTU5+ojB05/rc5SkUuoYXXi/9fHJdpdpJcG QkXWq9UxHudyPXnz+Rft1r/UCZwik6gbIz7TI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id :message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to :in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=pIexQpPBebn+PPYJMZ+y+8VfpQuIsS/7F40vIBaN8YWtPyulEgPB2Kdpe9k0zKyfpC x0MPepGPKSZYocce4yUDqG+1yCzTvlMl1/N+u/tL8wofhOSru5Uy+PGduIbbsolZ2sRA PzUeEfOxUAv8AjLiTucOZe1GH9ae3wRssjsVA= Received: by 10.101.52.5 with SMTP id e5mr505540ank.22.1302380361439; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 13:19:21 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.163.24 with SMTP id q24ls603512ano.2.p; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 13:19:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.233.18 with SMTP id f18mr398427anh.10.1302380359980; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 13:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.233.18 with SMTP id f18mr398426anh.10.1302380359961; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 13:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm9.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm9.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.237.210]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id i10si1176830anh.8.2011.04.09.13.19.18; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 13:19:18 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.237.210 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.94.237.210; Received: from [66.94.237.200] by nm9.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2011 20:19:18 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.119] by tm11.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2011 20:19:18 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1024.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2011 20:19:18 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 665013.76268.bm@omp1024.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 43508 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Apr 2011 20:19:18 -0000 Message-ID: <353063.15661.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: WTvDld4VM1mu4c1e6a8eXU4VybEJDkzS30itirQee3QM6HP xWdLloP9aEIZ96o547xlvb9mMpEeInDOhqKYeAXcOe5EqOTmM85hYDvS2Vov zF0pMHaLwXAgcvVlwqDIM8APQhUjaY7LeQ5b_gZ7lUnF2f6mbM_ZbtT.OoVL rdn6_geuuDtIS87WMzVbD9EVVF.RHcdnYQY3iXgkV4HdzsOriTbnWuT6apFl gXxdKzxnrp7YgHZUEyvdi4NsexxVjtLK_VWP4doXz.cQMxD.wAy_v8yOgaRv Uam.PBZrkmtACCBAEPLnXkVer7jjcv.FbYwI32q1F..BK4okThcrV._DPfIi 2MzqSDL3nxHu0iM3wRIVNcH1juLBySaDPccYnHwEoQVTKWIcT6aFnIw-- Received: from [99.92.108.41] by web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 13:19:18 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/559 YahooMailWebService/0.8.109.295617 References: <0a74da06-07cf-4b52-a329-ed0ebbae2f5b@u8g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> <637d0745ed534b12dfc5867e00c83107@mail.twey.co.uk> <201104082010.50455.phma@phma.optus.nu> <501670.94789.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 13:19:18 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: I love Lojban's approach, but what's the deal with place tags? To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.237.210 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, it could be argued that nothing that important ever happens in this n= eck=20 of the woods and, when it does, it does so so slowly that there is plenty o= f=20 time to clear up any misunderstandings. But actually, it is just three (at= =20 least) different dialects meeting and adapting to one another in virtual=20 isolation for a half a century or more (just before the Civil War to the co= ming=20 of radio or the WPA, whichever was first) and it will take as long to sort= =20 itself out in the young'uns=20 ----- Original Message ---- From: Ivo Doko To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, April 9, 2011 3:06:54 PM Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: I love Lojban's approach, but what's the deal wit= h=20 place tags? On 9 April 2011 20:40, John E Clifford wrote: > if my wife says "pan" (to my ears), I never > know whether she is after a pan or a pen or a pin. I always found that intriguing, how [=C3=A6], [=C9=9B] and [=C9=AA] have ma= naged to merge into one in some accents of English. Because my own native language doesn't have [=C3=A6] but does have [=C9=9B], when I was learning English as a child I always had a hard time distinguishing between "man" and "men", "pat" and "pet", "bat" and "bet" etc., but after a while my hearing just got adjusted to the additional phoneme and today I can distinguish them (and pronounce them differently and correctly) without a problem. Difference between [=C3=A6] and [=C9=9B] (and especially= [=C9=AA]) is so crucial in so many situations in English that I just can't understand how something like that managed to get lost. As for lojban vowels, I have always pronounced them like this: a - [a] or [a=CB=90] e - [=C9=9B] or [=C9=9B=CB=90] i - [i] or [i=CB=90] o - [o] or [o=CB=90] u - [u] or [u=CB=90] y - [=C9=99] or [=C9=99=CB=90] The length of the vowel in pronunciation I adjust to my own feeling, which is undoubtedly heavily influenced by Serbo-Croatian and English. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= =20 "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to=20 lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at=20 http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.