From lojban+bncCNuStaWoDxDEk4PtBBoEb-_FwQ@googlegroups.com Sat Apr 09 14:04:33 2011 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Q8fKO-0002hU-SK; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 14:04:32 -0700 Received: by wwb13 with SMTP id 13sf4671071wwb.16 for ; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 14:04:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wdAFFG5qu92tLjQWlQ86Lnwgpeoh4J8/D3QQEpGZ/KM=; b=X2ZELJuHZpeS2gnq0ChEaTKLe0YGUe9fe6tem3+W6A9Q3x4zwoJyKTuaHAbsVezqCA ae/4BLy9cb+y/B8mlMT/xoLA44PzH0HaBEWvDbA1SRA956r7Q5upCZEbpgWhFAXJ+YtK 8guHbUBBlMiWwnr6LFLjR1mqGO2EV1F9n5qok= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=aYL9MES2yS0yywBuQfNbROWzIlS5eZUwVi5Ej15mj/PAY3k4/SeF6ViuSdn2TKOzOa x82rrhxaXNommO6Kto+tH04VREt+9I+WjfI1VA4mn1Co8mlOKwcSlCwYCpUBJTRr2VUy GMjuFcrsu4sCkSWMm48FwQk3keNfwP/BbAQIs= Received: by 10.216.65.73 with SMTP id e51mr885091wed.7.1302383044998; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 14:04:04 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.49.69 with SMTP id w47ls133271web.2.p; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 14:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.246.6 with SMTP id p6mr230719wer.5.1302383043588; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 14:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.246.6 with SMTP id p6mr230718wer.5.1302383043565; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 14:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f174.google.com (mail-wy0-f174.google.com [74.125.82.174]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h6si533314wes.3.2011.04.09.14.04.03 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 09 Apr 2011 14:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.174 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.174; Received: by mail-wy0-f174.google.com with SMTP id 21so3907390wya.19 for ; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 14:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.210.136 with SMTP id gk8mr2512115wbb.79.1302383043417; Sat, 09 Apr 2011 14:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.73] (87-194-76-177.bethere.co.uk [87.194.76.177]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e13sm2456795wbi.40.2011.04.09.14.04.01 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 09 Apr 2011 14:04:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4DA0C9C0.6040102@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2011 22:04:00 +0100 From: And Rosta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110303 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: I love Lojban's approach, but what's the deal with place tags? References: <0a74da06-07cf-4b52-a329-ed0ebbae2f5b@u8g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> <637d0745ed534b12dfc5867e00c83107@mail.twey.co.uk> <201104082010.50455.phma@phma.optus.nu> <501670.94789.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: and.rosta@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.174 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=and.rosta@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ivo Doko, On 09/04/2011 21:06: > As for lojban vowels, I have always pronounced them like this: > > a - [a] or [a=CB=90] > e - [=C9=9B] or [=C9=9B=CB=90] > i - [i] or [i=CB=90] > o - [o] or [o=CB=90] > u - [u] or [u=CB=90] > y - [=C9=99] or [=C9=99=CB=90] Me too, except I have [=C9=94] for /o/. (I use the same 5 AEIOU when speaki= ng Italian too.) The buffer vowel is defined as "anything that doesn't overlap with /a,e,i,o= ,u,y/". I use [y] for it, which is phonetically the best choice, but phonol= ogically feels wrong: really I think /y/ should have been [y] and the buffe= r vowel should have been [=C9=99]. E.g. I say /zbasu/ as [zybasu]. I seem to recall something in CLL saying that Turkish /y/ should correspond= to Lojban /i/, because rounding is not phonologically distinctive in Lojba= n. But I hope that doesn't entail that [y] is a licit realization of /i/. I= f it does, then surely there can be no contrastive realization for the buff= er vowel. --And. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.