From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRD708DuBBoEcrtQsA@googlegroups.com Sun May 15 12:31:21 2011
Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61])
	by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72)
	(envelope-from <lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRD708DuBBoEcrtQsA@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1QLh25-0004ag-Vr; Sun, 15 May 2011 12:31:21 -0700
Received: by ywg8 with SMTP id 8sf5009405ywg.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Sun, 15 May 2011 12:31:12 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf
         :x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id:message-id:x-ymail-osg
         :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version
         :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to
         :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post
         :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe
         :content-type;
        bh=GC9+sL1NhSK4/tJUPAtlRT8ASFLQCWEoEJvobZV8IOY=;
        b=4a+RtnhbUy1D0kW70/23utivBlEjJtqXiWas95hYPfMPqXTppfVLEDVKXLaSSksbJV
         G88uPpbLjgEC4sHcgFVSHU+02S6mTs/m9iGvwgWfILSVtCqeIPzMozV0gGrrnGf60AxM
         P9VlKIQABJ0z+kQ59dA0mc2ezWx3cDV2JQ7lE=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id
         :message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to
         :in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        b=Iemglk0Z5EavoNuxogFfDgTaDAIFy6I6fDbhLIyLH275gOdIQfTVurHwchcuuxKV+/
         1Vz7mb4IkZoVKJ7jmXvzIoNpUi+xeUs3Lu075thz4LJGxLYKxped8TgdjKeYJvCw16IH
         FkFpXBla5AsljAyxGu+L5UlD0sJmFEFYdTnF4=
Received: by 10.150.165.13 with SMTP id n13mr451766ybe.28.1305487867188;
        Sun, 15 May 2011 12:31:07 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.150.101.19 with SMTP id y19ls1960195ybb.5.gmail; Sun, 15 May
 2011 12:31:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.236.156.225 with SMTP id m61mr863001yhk.81.1305487866298;
        Sun, 15 May 2011 12:31:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.236.156.225 with SMTP id m61mr863000yhk.81.1305487866286;
        Sun, 15 May 2011 12:31:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from nm28-vm1.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm28-vm1.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.236.231])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id 46si693910yhl.9.2011.05.15.12.31.05;
        Sun, 15 May 2011 12:31:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.236.231 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.94.236.231;
Received: from [66.94.237.196] by nm28.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 May 2011 19:31:04 -0000
Received: from [66.94.237.96] by tm7.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 May 2011 19:31:04 -0000
Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1001.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 May 2011 19:31:04 -0000
X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-5
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 775847.99923.bm@omp1001.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com
Received: (qmail 96160 invoked by uid 60001); 15 May 2011 19:31:04 -0000
Message-ID: <533870.74103.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
X-YMail-OSG: 6DQipwoVM1khJ_1FKds_Gt7sdg4gbATzkJFq5g1fsYYMYHw
 mGk7PRGOpaZpQ8XnS2HQZQtKDQRDgfO.2REh0N_HXIsxgyRUPTCINrPtwglb
 KAhV1uMkA6LnZ4dyVE2eu7L61qmmokngEZaT3We9fQJgZkRdrAYshRqdEDcE
 Kc73DSYVnv46XyUveE3lHHbUsYe50RnI6wozRJIeM9dtdGlISl0_OplMdnjB
 xPStPL8VMGRIY9Zcvg22etrmPnWYa81y730jcM.e7B8T4J1mrAw9FjSkogJS
 iOwFFmohcNqAnofr.K4Wg678rpmsy2rDs8NB5kQ.gJ1A.Gmkj0DZ3HMAlQ2y
 SB.X5CwX3KjQkTqSvqmjqT4gjAr_sF_KtNQUku72.GIlHME8My7ZTkyAEe.l
 KxLCXxIjnea3bPFvQiL6Pv8f9AezLUotmrceLddIld7rYjiUYbt5b27uvd.f
 D5nfnDPkXZHk1gfpATHaFafbovlr3FK_f5Hk_rzF0Lofh4LxTSDw4AZTT
Received: from [99.92.108.41] by web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 15 May 2011 12:31:04 PDT
X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/567 YahooMailWebService/0.8.111.303096
References: <BANLkTikmFwk_EdSYyHhCE4J=dDNkx_-9LA@mail.gmail.com> <BANLkTi=gFF_TUMOek-fB6m2V62TGUEa0Dw@mail.gmail.com> <BANLkTi=3LdsUOwiiWBzm3EwjF2UOMDgGzg@mail.gmail.com> <BANLkTi=hb8+Pc53M-1wfoicbYSLa6xi9SQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 12:31:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] "lo no"
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=hb8+Pc53M-1wfoicbYSLa6xi9SQ@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.236.231
 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-904289466-1305487864=:74103"

--0-904289466-1305487864=:74103
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Or, from our POV, you refuse to accept the way the world is, and we hate to 
leave anybody behind.





________________________________
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, May 15, 2011 9:58:06 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] "lo no"


  Although xorxes and John Clifford seem to understand my point (whether or not 
they agree), I am least happy that I am formulating my POV in a comprehensible 
manner.  And yet, here I am being sucked in again, because you refuse to leave 
it go.


On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 6:56 AM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:

On 13 May 2011 16:44, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>> Of course, since you do believe that, I hope you are prepared,
>> because all of the trained assassins I am sending your way are deadly.
>> You better start worrying about their cardinality.
>
>"all of the trained assassins" (ro lo broda), given no context, can
>mean one thousand (ki'o lo broda) or none (no lo broda) or else. In
>any case, it refers to "the trained assassins" (lo broda), something
>-- not nothing, not nomei. 

  Then I leave you with a question.  If broda = "the trained assassins that I am 
sending your way", Then "no lo xo broda"?  If you insist I can only send you 
zero OF some trained assassins, then how many assassins am I sending you none 
OF?  Please quanitfy that number for me.  For whether you know the answer or not 
(or indeed, whether one CAN  know what the answer is or not), there must be some 
answer to it.  You can always state an inner and outer qualifier. 


               --gejyspa


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.


--0-904289466-1305487864=:74103
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">Or, from our POV, you refuse to accept the way the world is, a=
nd we hate to leave anybody behind.<br><div><br></div><div style=3D"font-fa=
mily:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><br><div style=
=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><fo=
nt face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><hr size=3D"1"><b><span style=3D"font-weight:=
 bold;">From:</span></b> Michael Turniansky &lt;mturniansky@gmail.com&gt;<b=
r><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> lojban@googlegroups.=
com<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sun, May 15, =
2011 9:58:06 AM<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b=
> Re: [lojban] "lo no"<br></font><br>
<div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp; Although xorxes and John Clifford seem to understan=
d my point (whether or not they agree), I am least happy that I am formulat=
ing my POV in a comprehensible manner.&nbsp; And yet, here I am being sucke=
d in again, because you refuse to leave it go.<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 6:56 AM, tijlan <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:jbotijlan@gmail.com=
" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:jbotijlan@gmail.com">jbotijlan@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class=3D"im">On 13 May 2011 16:44, Michael Turniansky &lt;<a rel=3D"no=
follow" ymailto=3D"mailto:mturniansky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"=
mailto:mturniansky@gmail.com">mturniansky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div><div class=3D"im"><br>
<br>
&gt; Of course, since you do believe that, I hope you are prepared,<br>
&gt; because all of the trained assassins I am sending your way are deadly.=
<br>
&gt; You better start worrying about their cardinality.<br>
<br>
</div>"all of the trained assassins" (ro lo broda), given no context, can<b=
r>
mean one thousand (ki'o lo broda) or none (no lo broda) or else. In<br>
any case, it refers to "the trained assassins" (lo broda), something<br>
-- not nothing, not nomei. </blockquote><div><br>&nbsp; Then I leave you wi=
th a question.&nbsp; If broda =3D "the trained assassins that I am sending =
your way", Then "no lo xo broda"?&nbsp; If you insist I can only send you z=
ero OF some trained assassins, then how many assassins am I sending you non=
e OF?&nbsp; Please quanitfy that number for me.&nbsp; For whether you know =
the answer or not (or indeed, whether one CAN&nbsp; know what the answer is=
 or not), there must be some answer to it.&nbsp; You can always state an in=
ner and outer qualifier. <br>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; --gejyspa<br><br></div></div></div>

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.<br><span>

For more options, visit this group at <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://g=
roups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den">http://groups.google.com/group/lojba=
n?hl=3Den</a>.</span><br>


</div></div>



</div></body></html>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den.<br />



--0-904289466-1305487864=:74103--