From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRCqmsLuBBoEaji9jg@googlegroups.com Sun May 15 19:34:32 2011 Received: from mail-yi0-f61.google.com ([209.85.218.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QLndc-0007BU-Nx; Sun, 15 May 2011 19:34:32 -0700 Received: by yie19 with SMTP id 19sf4992261yie.16 for ; Sun, 15 May 2011 19:34:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf :x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id:message-id:x-ymail-osg :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=BegADU35b2vyfKCbeN9c0YPMOeskrYMMBJ0892w5jQ0=; b=Jw9qxJZYqgN7CehRs4O9HRBC7moI05viBxZun8MEl0LAFSEky0f2j34CH2+DNXN73T uWFXixKpfXNX84Zr4yUt2PAUeyj42LS0vMQ+YNv8sQfR4PDCMNeB6DdMrKe2FCvdNXSc dkBXxoZ2IAspnaQxB9NdtBBbLXl+oAuxj3PA8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id :message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to :in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=3Ya8thxVOOXF5J7IHLh6K4Kl7tPj3pp0occ+deAxV1kMXzXdJ5qAFJxXYMC8/BFgky +AgWGdPRSwAMQFZZz7NevcNMMV4UUUMG4LssAyt5y6zlM81/6qI1T4JK0h4uWOkUM9Kh JUwBQ/dOl+xPGWldElRZ250Kjd8qyF2OWE5Jo= Received: by 10.236.154.231 with SMTP id h67mr299533yhk.68.1305513258055; Sun, 15 May 2011 19:34:18 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.84.13 with SMTP id m13ls150841anl.0.gmail; Sun, 15 May 2011 19:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.207.33 with SMTP id j33mr1481889anq.17.1305513257307; Sun, 15 May 2011 19:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.207.33 with SMTP id j33mr1481888anq.17.1305513257274; Sun, 15 May 2011 19:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm24-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm24-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.236.143]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id v23si1629616anp.8.2011.05.15.19.34.17; Sun, 15 May 2011 19:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.236.143 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.94.236.143; Received: from [66.94.237.195] by nm24.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 May 2011 02:34:16 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.115] by tm6.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 May 2011 02:34:16 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1020.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 May 2011 02:34:16 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 844611.65989.bm@omp1020.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 44953 invoked by uid 60001); 16 May 2011 02:34:16 -0000 Message-ID: <545759.29797.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: l9_e9KsVM1mawztlYD3zvVw8qGEfD_q3xeQ7QU5CQK2JC45 bSCqNJ3IYugMpOuXh5visZkJNWAxytWp9clA4Cca2rVcKTdqXq.lRFUAVSMf mvJHRejyD8.q1tnwtIfwK2AVBQ7fcdrR43VMrGn1gcuBlMDcG0YXgAPQDe7I 7fe1y9tmyQCZdMrDFVK5_7TwTsTQifmyJo8kB938FXVL.W01zLCJdSn2dybc Z6dHloEAKpptq6NfJnlTa2AJJMfFcFTyR2PK0lGElYz4YSB1dBu2v0ZtJBPU 6EmccNdVcS06j8JmxeUaldp0v1pHElBxVhe8wNC7avBUvh.SD9XIVNOrmdsm NBliL6WjbY2z12nIzqT9tGEL87Alsq5Lqj1OyD01_tnq1iG5p3jSr_hb8xV7 SAnr3OK.5reSFHAWn5fwHvI.heAiAX0sEH363FZi63X6IHbRFvF1Vs.Rz8q3 KOXPATH4xs3Yk9PyggRvYhnOENw8yeclI56UZel4OtQ-- Received: from [99.92.108.41] by web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 15 May 2011 19:34:16 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/567 YahooMailWebService/0.8.111.303096 References: <533870.74103.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 19:34:16 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] "lo no" To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.236.143 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1576647224-1305513256=:29797" --0-1576647224-1305513256=:29797 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Happy to bring you a bit of cheer. Happier if it gets you with the program (which I gather it didn't). ________________________________ From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, May 15, 2011 3:55:25 PM Subject: Re: [lojban] "lo no" u'i That response made my day. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:31 PM, John E Clifford wrote: Or, from our POV, you refuse to accept the way the world is, and we hate to leave anybody behind. > > > > > > ________________________________ From: Michael Turniansky >To: lojban@googlegroups.com >Sent: Sun, May 15, 2011 9:58:06 AM > >Subject: Re: [lojban] "lo no" > > > > Although xorxes and John Clifford seem to understand my point (whether or not >they agree), I am least happy that I am formulating my POV in a comprehensible >manner. And yet, here I am being sucked in again, because you refuse to leave >it go. > > >On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 6:56 AM, tijlan wrote: > >On 13 May 2011 16:44, Michael Turniansky wrote: >> >> >> >>> Of course, since you do believe that, I hope you are prepared, >>> because all of the trained assassins I am sending your way are deadly. >>> You better start worrying about their cardinality. >> >>"all of the trained assassins" (ro lo broda), given no context, can >>mean one thousand (ki'o lo broda) or none (no lo broda) or else. In >>any case, it refers to "the trained assassins" (lo broda), something >>-- not nothing, not nomei. Then I leave you with a question. If broda = "the trained assassins that I am sending your way", Then "no lo xo broda"? If you insist I can only send you zero OF some trained assassins, then how many assassins am I sending you none OF? Please quanitfy that number for me. For whether you know the answer or not (or indeed, whether one CAN know what the answer is or not), there must be some answer to it. You can always state an inner and outer qualifier. --gejyspa >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >"lojban" group. >To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >"lojban" group. >To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0-1576647224-1305513256=:29797 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Happy to bring you a bit of cheer.  Happier if it gets yo= u with the program (which I gather it didn't).


From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmai= l.com>
To: lojban@go= oglegroups.com
Sent: Su= n, May 15, 2011 3:55:25 PM
Subject= : Re: [lojban] "lo no"

 u'i  That response made my day.

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:31 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com= > wrote:
Or, from our POV, you refuse t= o accept the way the world is, and we hate to leave anybody behind.



From: Michael Turniansky &l= t;mturniansky@gmail.com>To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, May 15, 2011 9:5= 8:06 AM

Subject:<= /span> Re: [lojban] "lo no"

  Although xorxes and John Clifford seem to understan= d my point (whether or not they agree), I am least happy that I am formulat= ing my POV in a comprehensible manner.  And yet, here I am being sucke= d in again, because you refuse to leave it go.

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 6:56 AM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com= > wrote:
On 13 May 2011 16:44, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:


> Of course, since you do believe that, I hope you are prepared,
> because all of the trained assassins I am sending your way are deadly.=
> You better start worrying about their cardinality.

"all of the trained assassins" (ro lo broda), given no context, can mean one thousand (ki'o lo broda) or none (no lo broda) or else. In
any case, it refers to "the trained assassins" (lo broda), something
-- not nothing, not nomei.

  Then I leave you wi= th a question.  If broda =3D "the trained assassins that I am sending = your way", Then "no lo xo broda"?  If you insist I can only send you z= ero OF some trained assassins, then how many assassins am I sending you non= e OF?  Please quanitfy that number for me.  For whether you know = the answer or not (or indeed, whether one CAN  know what the answer is= or not), there must be some answer to it.  You can always state an in= ner and outer qualifier.

            = ;   --gejyspa

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