From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDp78vuBBoEu2y7xA@googlegroups.com Tue May 17 15:34:33 2011 Received: from mail-vx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QMSqR-0004tE-UY; Tue, 17 May 2011 15:34:33 -0700 Received: by vxk20 with SMTP id 20sf366343vxk.16 for ; Tue, 17 May 2011 15:34:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=wrUrzlLvnnNxOH5cPbiNq60rMQ1UD6OiJhsE3fM+uLM=; b=xgP53apP3IaLYzsu0oulzlafa4A80HWhpAp+MnZbv2xHBPGcl1HpRr3j0bW58UI8tj lWLEsYw22WIK0C/L12341BIOmhtIOHUpH7nzpKS3sEVyM+PpOjkkPt0DxaL3+KKwtfYY 5RswFu4mKWzP++vJhywU2u9NT+mZw6Igod05w= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=HWTF9JSqFk825Y7+tUWW2A/SMJSGr0UJtRujW1BpIySZ8F5iMdHyO/J++Kb47hmtA6 Ra6/fjdb+OGJXNAuJfD7x+AMXQB9XaAwFXNxxR7WBVksJglREccESVAi7aazDASxwaEE fc6FN6NK2BJe/hXRf3m52NIhMjN8XV29239/o= Received: by 10.220.201.68 with SMTP id ez4mr108020vcb.43.1305671657049; Tue, 17 May 2011 15:34:17 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.52.177.98 with SMTP id cp2ls1734698vdc.0.gmail; Tue, 17 May 2011 15:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.88.73 with SMTP id be9mr212553vdb.25.1305671656208; Tue, 17 May 2011 15:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.88.73 with SMTP id be9mr212552vdb.25.1305671656200; Tue, 17 May 2011 15:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vx0-f169.google.com ([209.85.220.169]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fl21si148730vbb.3.2011.05.17.15.34.16 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 17 May 2011 15:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.169 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.169; Received: by mail-vx0-f169.google.com with SMTP id 20so762736vxk.28 for ; Tue, 17 May 2011 15:34:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.31.198 with SMTP id c6mr1665767vdi.305.1305671655992; Tue, 17 May 2011 15:34:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.108.167 with HTTP; Tue, 17 May 2011 15:34:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4DD277B1.3090503@gmail.com> References: <340069.36890.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <406208.54874.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4DD277B1.3090503@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 19:34:15 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Masses From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.169 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 10:27 AM, And Rosta wrote: > > To try to state essentially the same point in a completely different way: > just as brodeing holds of the referentage of "lo broda" to any degree on the > coll--dist scale, so does "brodaing". On the plural reference model, "lo > broda" has many referents, and it needn't be the case that each is brode; my > point it that it also needn't be the case that each is broda. > > I'm not sure if you already agree with this point. I think I do, yes: "lo broda" does not require that each of its referents be broda, "lo broda" = "zo'e noi ke'a broda", not "zo'e noi ro ke'a broda". It seems though that the most common use of "lo broda" will be for "zo'e noi ro ke'a broda" and not for "zo'e noi lu'o ke'a broda" or any other intermediate distribution. In fact for many (most?) broda "zo'e noi lu'o ke'a broda" may not even be available. How can things be dogs other than one by one? But when the "noi lu'o ke'a broda" form is available, I don't think it would be wise to disallow it. I think the cardinality can only count things that are broda one by one though, so it would seem that the presence of an inner quantifier forces the "noi ro ke'a broda" interpretation. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.