From lojban+bncCNTPpI2KGxDi0czuBBoEQcGBWA@googlegroups.com Tue May 17 19:03:29 2011 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QMW6f-0003ir-Bu; Tue, 17 May 2011 19:03:29 -0700 Received: by qyk36 with SMTP id 36sf2205093qyk.16 for ; Tue, 17 May 2011 19:03:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis :x-cloudmark-score:x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; bh=L2BRzkje+yPmGVwtVToMKI9rtz2LbC30iyyrkfRwMN0=; b=RKlKHmlbP2bvD9KVf4vGqQv+BTq7Cd+W4cGHmbzoBdz2K0AORc2F4yibE+pA71kCmn tSbJGsDJ9ufCwGcK8koic55AyMJ/6uiycu9FemcF1JhwDcdhiu2fEW4bYUbke91szWiF Me2PcskD1iDaGgFMti/7uCuZJbB48zrz/pZvY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=fvPq9ZESvUEaBS3f0gnTzKLOUoCdbkzPgO+habQQ0zI3YqsQuexOyUjZo8Z9AtyF0V 1Hzxxat2lwjbE+a72y2OZTLu2kZdDdInvnnz62SC3Vc9SWYz15TiIAiPWkGVg3jZ218U uoxidDwHCQg5G9IQr+98HW72S3lzcFUo8ELXs= Received: by 10.229.26.196 with SMTP id f4mr137534qcc.14.1305684194356; Tue, 17 May 2011 19:03:14 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.57.73 with SMTP id b9ls15574qch.0.gmail; Tue, 17 May 2011 19:03:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.73.96 with SMTP id p32mr167689qcj.19.1305684193585; Tue, 17 May 2011 19:03:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.73.96 with SMTP id p32mr167688qcj.19.1305684193568; Tue, 17 May 2011 19:03:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.122]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id f1si245622qcq.14.2011.05.17.19.03.12; Tue, 17 May 2011 19:03:12 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.122 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.122; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=aeMH4JcVOnVr0LmJAzqEvfnmJyuaZufWdlng4HTRGCk= c=1 sm=0 a=6ti_TD8eFm8A:10 a=zwGHTvGZ988A:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:17 a=M-Jola2LzY5dyY8GzQkA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.176.118.168 Received: from [75.176.118.168] ([75.176.118.168:57933] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id BA/A3-03893-FD823DD4; Wed, 18 May 2011 02:03:12 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB6C9131FA for ; Tue, 17 May 2011 22:03:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] 2 questions about translation into Lojban Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 22:03:07 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201105172203.09055.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.122 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Monday 09 May 2011 15:37:15 Escape Landsome wrote: > 1=B0) the first is french "Grand Silence", which means "Great Silence" > in english, "great" in the sense of "great" (and maybe also "deep") > > I didn't find "silence" in the dictionary, should somebody create it ? > Assuming silence is X in lojban, is "le X banli [ku]" the correct > translation for "Great Silence" ? "banli kamsmaji" or "banli nunsmaji", or similarly for some other NU,=20 depending on what exactly you mean. > 2=B0) I want to find a translation for a pun. A friend of mine is > nicknamed "Cochonfucius", which is a pun between "cochon" =3D pig and > "confucius" =3D Kong fu-zi, the famous chinese philosopher. (This is > because of some chinese novel character that assumes a porcine form to > visit the world and teach philosophy ;-) > > What would be the best way to keep the pun understable, assuming of > course there is one ? "Pig" is xarju, "pig species" is selxarju, has > anybody an idea ? The rafsi is "xaj", so if you can think of a Chinese philosopher name that= =20 goes with "xaj", try that. > By the way, does there exist "puns" in Lojban ? Yes, though there are no pairs of brivla with identical sound or spelling a= nd=20 completely different meaning. Here's an example: lu li'o ka'u le nu le terdi cu carna le jendu cu cacra li revo li'u i lu lo'e nu catra zo'u sei la noltroni'u cu cusku ko vimcu le stedu ti li'= u "cacra" and "catra" sound similar, but not quite the same, as in the origin= al=20 the two words "axis" and "axes" are pronounced slightly differently. Puns c= an=20 rarely be translated literally. In this case the Lojban for "axis"=20 is "jendu", and an axe (which is "ka'amru") isn't mentioned. I've thought of writing a book called "The Flower's Snare". I'm not the rig= ht=20 person to write it (it needs an entomologist/anthologist/palynologist), but= I=20 thought of a Lojban title: "xrula xlura". Pierre --=20 The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.