From lojban+bncCOib25n_BhCr2s7uBBoE1YM8LA@googlegroups.com Wed May 18 04:27:55 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QMeus-0004tu-SH; Wed, 18 May 2011 04:27:55 -0700 Received: by fxm14 with SMTP id 14sf3014866fxm.16 for ; Wed, 18 May 2011 04:27:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=mByoUeWAYDVoQu1pc7Nfw2FXBSMDpt00fZo9ZE0xiVM=; b=VOniJfbJKXzsvm2x171XW1EBWYEhNrDsDRD910yUxIBvJPQTlVTicPsmh1picsODUO 1AkR2E88Hn2gZF+vFDqQJKxoMuCKdpNPRANMLNm0+OziNGNlUZ6LwBceJfC7jFihA3dr tt75KDVzqPbMXWR+zEuXIcrrm1CCjnyG8zG+s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=6n+V+V8LrjA+HMzC9tdD9TU7yXExjKDEvIkAD+OQsqTmXpQvj05b0ymdVNwZDi6W0e H3J5a4jOL3iGT9qBA12Rx/zJfGG/A8wWA5LsJR+BjcX4iHgT1LGCX7IsYkU+iLSS0Cs9 /xImEVLePPm4E6nn6qaeuv8t/VWNMIhggx23Y= Received: by 10.223.42.83 with SMTP id r19mr476156fae.4.1305718059608; Wed, 18 May 2011 04:27:39 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.38.88 with SMTP id a24ls198156bke.1.gmail; Wed, 18 May 2011 04:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.83.12 with SMTP id d12mr180077bkl.16.1305718058503; Wed, 18 May 2011 04:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.83.12 with SMTP id d12mr180076bkl.16.1305718058467; Wed, 18 May 2011 04:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f47.google.com (mail-bw0-f47.google.com [209.85.214.47]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id st2si269823bkb.0.2011.05.18.04.27.37 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 18 May 2011 04:27:37 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.47; Received: by mail-bw0-f47.google.com with SMTP id 5so1698104bwz.20 for ; Wed, 18 May 2011 04:27:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.82.224 with SMTP id c32mr1749996bkl.161.1305718057158; Wed, 18 May 2011 04:27:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.70.84 with HTTP; Wed, 18 May 2011 04:27:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 07:27:37 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] What's in a name? From: Alex Rozenshteyn To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.47 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6dd8eb8f9475b04a38b2c9b --0016e6dd8eb8f9475b04a38b2c9b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 But as I understand it, a cooperative speaker (correct me if I'm misusing the term) wouldn't name a dog "The Great Depression" as anything but a joke. Furthermore, The Great Depression is a name that is used to refer to the time period by many, not just me. I might expect someone using {lo} to be referring to some other time period which can be reasonable described as a "great depression", and {le} would still make me wonder if they meant this particular one. My heuristic tended to be, if it's capitalized in English, (usually) use {la}, since if it's capitalized in English, it refers to a particular thing (which may not be a good terbri), unlike {le}, which can refer to one thing in one sentence and another in another. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 10:04 PM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > Well, the point to remember is that "la banli nu pindi" refers to a > particular something/someone that may not be a great depression. It's just > a name. I could name my dog "la banli nu pindi", and then I could say "la > banli nu pindi cu muvgau lo rebla be vo'a" But it would less likely to be > true to say "le banli nu pindi cu muvgau lo rebla be vo'a" since here I am > actually speaking about something that I am describing AS being a great > depression (whether it is or not, that's how I'm choosing to describe it. It > might be a dog, but that's highly unlikely). So if you are speaking about > the period that in the United states lasted from 1929-1939, use "le" (or > even "lo") > > --gejyspa > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:15 PM, .arpis. wrote: > >> When should one use a descriptive name as opposed to a non-name? e.g. >> (using {pindi} because I don't know enough economics to accurately translate >> "depression") >> {le banli nu pindi} vs {la banli nu pindi} >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .arpis. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- Alex R -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016e6dd8eb8f9475b04a38b2c9b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But as I understand it, a cooperative speaker (correct me if I'm misusi= ng the term) wouldn't name a dog "The Great Depression" as an= ything but a joke.

Furthermore, The Great Depression is a name that = is used to refer to the time period by many, not just me.

I might expect someone using {lo} to be referring to some other time pe= riod which can be reasonable described as a "great depression", a= nd {le} would still make me wonder if they meant this particular one.

My heuristic tended to be, if it's capitalized in English, (usually= ) use {la}, since if it's capitalized in English, it refers to a partic= ular thing (which may not be a good terbri), unlike {le}, which can refer t= o one thing in one sentence and another in another.

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 10:04 PM, Michael Tu= rniansky <mtu= rniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
=A0 Well, the point to remember is that "la banli nu = pindi" refers to a particular something/someone that may not be a grea= t depression.=A0 It's just a name.=A0 I could name my dog "la banl= i nu pindi", and then I could say "la banli nu pindi cu muvgau lo= rebla be vo'a" But it would less likely to be true to say "l= e banli nu pindi cu muvgau lo rebla be vo'a" since here I am actua= lly speaking about something that I am describing AS=A0 being a great depre= ssion (whether it is or not, that's how I'm choosing to describe it= . It might be a dog, but that's highly unlikely).=A0 So if you are spea= king about the period that in the United states lasted from 1929-1939, use = "le" (or even "lo")

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:15= PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote= :
When should one use a descriptive name as opposed to a non-name? e.g. (us= ing {pindi} because I don't know enough economics to accurately transla= te "depression")
{le banli nu pindi} vs {la banli nu pindi}

--
mu'o mi'e .arpis.

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= =A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R

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