From lojban+bncCMGclZyxExCI_djuBBoEblmSCg@googlegroups.com Fri May 20 03:12:43 2011 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QNMh9-0007Wd-0g; Fri, 20 May 2011 03:12:43 -0700 Received: by qyk36 with SMTP id 36sf6383171qyk.16 for ; Fri, 20 May 2011 03:12:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=jxAywnXyzRBKMP9IJEZ2HBvFsEFRyVEH5qkKm5tR1eM=; b=I0MVKQfrfrFZguDMoajPchsK1H0XqNsdMFiTEww/q2oR2POl4WiBBIHpCiGrlJMaI+ +5eh8gA0ecF7/EDy43AhwNjiPkbb+PiVkpfUN2iNNehDWUEWf7eFI/RvEzJ39LEVoggT I9nEDN1nyWs8M4CTYNkxomm0/CaxZLUK39hCQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=esvQmHPuUJbva6frB6yyULvyV042oLUzPYgIdyYiBK9goUSu1DyUWv1SvVZVdwStdw kweGRazbQ7GkpI96lHcPJDV7VhkWZGsBFy3R3A2BbnIk1xiZx98LK8cI8SKk+99K0lCO 1f00C8Fdx+mBzE2duQLc1VYH9umBBj7dVmePU= Received: by 10.229.73.32 with SMTP id o32mr616913qcj.18.1305886344217; Fri, 20 May 2011 03:12:24 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.173.157 with SMTP id p29ls708616qcz.1.gmail; Fri, 20 May 2011 03:12:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.106.74 with SMTP id w10mr494057qco.8.1305886343221; Fri, 20 May 2011 03:12:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.106.74 with SMTP id w10mr494056qco.8.1305886343201; Fri, 20 May 2011 03:12:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vx0-f170.google.com ([209.85.220.170]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w19si1732003qco.3.2011.05.20.03.12.23 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 20 May 2011 03:12:23 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of escaaape@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.170 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.170; Received: by vxb40 with SMTP id 40so3686217vxb.15 for ; Fri, 20 May 2011 03:12:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.177.196 with SMTP id cs4mr2330439vdc.279.1305886342880; Fri, 20 May 2011 03:12:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.182.165 with HTTP; Fri, 20 May 2011 03:12:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 12:12:22 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] "lo no" From: Escape Landsome To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: escaaape@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of escaaape@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.170 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=escaaape@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello > "A half of one" states that "one" is cardinal to "a half", i.e. you > can't have "a half" without "one" of which to leave the other half. As > far as "mei" is concerned, "pipa", "pimu", "cipiso", etc. are > derivatives from elementary cardinal numbers (0, 1, 2, 3...). And > there is at least one logical reason why we shouldn't use such > derivatives as an inner quantifier, as a proper cardinality value of > something. We must be wary of the fallacy of division: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_division > Consider this example: > > lo pimu vinji > > Can we safely say a 1/2 'airplane' is an airplane with vinji2 and > vinji3 (i.e. a full-fledged vinji1)? A part of something doesn't > necessarily inherit all properties of that whole. If lo broda lacks > certain properties that define lo brode, lo broda may not be > identified as lo brode, any more than it can be *associated* with lo > brode. We can avoid this issue by not messing up the cardinality & > reference of "lo vinji" itself and instead outer-quantifying it: > > pimu lo vinji > pipa lo pimu lo vinji Considering the cardinality of rational numbers, I would like to say that a 1/2 plane makes sense to me, essentially because a plane has a plane of symmetry which divides it into two (rather) equal halves. I suggest that, if something has a symmetry of order N, speaking of a 1/N of this object is valid (and should be regarded as an example of positive non-zero valid cardinal for this thing) Yet, a 1/1000000 plane does not exist, and is certainly no screw-bolt, unless of course you live in a world where planes are just heaps of 1000000 screw-bolts The *structure* of the massive thing plays a crucial role in the determination of symmetries. So, you can't say an electron is a 1/N plane (N very very big number), because there is no symmetry in the way the electrons are assembled (no mentioning the fact that there are other subatomic particles like protons and neutrons, of course) --.esk. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.