From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCJld_uBBoEgJN4Vg@googlegroups.com Sat May 21 07:22:18 2011 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QNn4H-0004Vj-3n; Sat, 21 May 2011 07:22:17 -0700 Received: by qyk36 with SMTP id 36sf7782657qyk.16 for ; Sat, 21 May 2011 07:22:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=zchtbBLQJ5K4TQrZ91plyKP+T+5PFuy8fXmQz+4yQNM=; b=RgH8JsIGh/xLc65666QrHnrLhCigyMPy7AhJ48Otd/tcaLp7+3hb2dV1fKtRPKlJ6a End1S9mKTBSn+8dEx16UcGJY/laxmWN4Xt32kxm18ziOmYPsPTlQUSSGdg+trkcYJPvO sEfxKbMcjYl7tM1zerkfFbxfk4LM6ghoOwY3U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=zsQZ7Gt+4PXBFHAVwnZGpbXqpxSVYyS7sgCZr8mEhqBmKlpZKwGTf9+FKXXyguU9Mz W9krnqdJsUOKFs2BqNknGxHVrr63cNqgORkmp0UhwEgtjidmSWanxCHfZQSzlC+u7tQY IJlkTn7yyLz5PPc5XngfAWxTU5pJ3seq//lLc= Received: by 10.229.253.12 with SMTP id my12mr76867qcb.39.1305987721896; Sat, 21 May 2011 07:22:01 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.174.6 with SMTP id r6ls527062qaz.7.gmail; Sat, 21 May 2011 07:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.9.144 with SMTP id l16mr222364qal.26.1305987721383; Sat, 21 May 2011 07:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.9.144 with SMTP id l16mr222363qal.26.1305987721376; Sat, 21 May 2011 07:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vx0-f169.google.com ([209.85.220.169]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m42si2758410qcz.1.2011.05.21.07.22.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 21 May 2011 07:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.169 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.169; Received: by vxk20 with SMTP id 20so3462173vxk.28 for ; Sat, 21 May 2011 07:22:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.115.229 with SMTP id jr5mr993427vdb.145.1305987721046; Sat, 21 May 2011 07:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.108.167 with HTTP; Sat, 21 May 2011 07:22:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <217730.28216.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <921420.66129.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 11:22:00 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] "lo no" From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.169 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Ian Johnson wrote: > "Half of a can of oranges", in English, is not half of the oranges in a full > can; it is a thing, possibly a mass, comprised of both the can and half of > the oranges that were in it. (If I ask you to give me the half a can of > oranges that's in the fridge (perhaps to ensure you don't give me the other > one that is unopened), I don't expect you to take them out of the can and > give them to me.) I get no Google hits for "half of a can of oranges". For "half a can of oranges" I only get three different hits: "Fold in fruit cocktail and mandarin oranges, reserving half a can of oranges for garnish", "I eat half a can of oranges and drink some water before the sun starts to go down" and "Add almonds, half a can of oranges or corn (save the other half for a salad tomorrow), and parmesan to the lettuce,", none of which seems to include the can in what you do to the oranges. In the case of your "give" example, I suspect that including the can is part of the practicalities of the situation, not of the meaning of the noun phrase. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.