From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCsxuTuBBoEnS-YSw@googlegroups.com Sun May 22 07:52:46 2011 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QOA1H-0003gJ-9T; Sun, 22 May 2011 07:52:45 -0700 Received: by vws2 with SMTP id 2sf2216026vws.16 for ; Sun, 22 May 2011 07:52:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Faq6aBwgNJ+9quhAjuyZ6LSZHTIPyD3Hb+NT3Z/J9Cw=; b=qogyB8ijMp29DME2EVMrpWLJjcIiMInJgomYG9BlmdqNiQJiI8vFVWlXocGRl8e3IW 2C74Dv1IHf8Xnd28ff+o3WVmTf5ATaYL1q+ofjLJS8kA+HPK2w82cA5hx3fWAvg8myQF KoyLGxI0wzOcgQpmH5WUNhZmcpi8Jk2qpgtK8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=4vqOw+M0NfOxTgiAZpDKHrsWynO1r7P0Bk2rUMnDK3+ixrlFov5kV6EIL9P4fmKatE sNJJfZ6xHiesHQ1+4i6E0xRcEVvQqUgywcagMqnpc/QByXpF86Trx1gWHzaSQD3jo6sq xwaj+GbOiwTyYA9+A1iwpklfhA5NMksjrMPv4= Received: by 10.220.182.70 with SMTP id cb6mr117670vcb.36.1306075948481; Sun, 22 May 2011 07:52:28 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.52.76.10 with SMTP id g10ls488999vdw.3.gmail; Sun, 22 May 2011 07:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.97.228 with SMTP id ed4mr706568vdb.3.1306075947477; Sun, 22 May 2011 07:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.97.228 with SMTP id ed4mr706567vdb.3.1306075947466; Sun, 22 May 2011 07:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f49.google.com (mail-vw0-f49.google.com [209.85.212.49]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dq10si3299508vdc.0.2011.05.22.07.52.27 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 22 May 2011 07:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.49 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.49; Received: by vws8 with SMTP id 8so5799733vws.22 for ; Sun, 22 May 2011 07:52:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.115.230 with SMTP id jr6mr2089921vdb.25.1306075947317; Sun, 22 May 2011 07:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.108.167 with HTTP; Sun, 22 May 2011 07:52:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 11:52:27 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] "lo no" From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 10:50 AM, tijlan wrote: > On 20 May 2011 13:41, Michael Turniansky wrote: >> >> Saying that "lo" with no >> inner qualifier means that there is always at least one is exactly the s= ame >> as saying that the default inner qualifier is "su'o", which xorlo explic= itly >> says is not the case.=A0 Help me out, here. > > I don't think xorlo says the first. As far as I can tell, "lo broda" > is as much "lo su'o broda" as "lo gerku" is "lo gerku noi danlu", and > as much not "lo no broda" as "lo gerku" isn't "lo gerku noi nardanlu". > We could have "noi danlu" as the default clause for "lo gerku", but we > need not. We could have "su'o" as the default inner qualifier for "lo > broda", but we need not. Right. Consider "ta", "zo sfofa" or "li ze". Those sumti don't have syntactic room for an inner quantifier. I don't think anyone has ever proposed that they have a default cardinality of "su'o". I think "deafult" is the wrong word though, because a default suggests something that can be overridden, but if all you mean by "default" is that they do refer, then I don't object. In the case of "lo broda", there is the additional question brought up in this thread of whether an explicit inner quantifier forces each of the referents of "lo broda" to be itself a broda, or whether it doesn't. For example, does "lo ki'o sruri be lo dinju" refer to 1000 things each of which is a surrounder of the building, or can it refer to 1000 things which together surround the building? That's an open question. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.