From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhDi-fvtBBoExnzz7w@googlegroups.com Mon May 02 11:50:25 2011 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QGyCK-00089r-DU; Mon, 02 May 2011 11:50:25 -0700 Received: by vws2 with SMTP id 2sf1744956vws.16 for ; Mon, 02 May 2011 11:50:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=Dw4ZK6X9Ulo3uGUKItrL5iE5HEPx7hBAKniLAgmv4zQ=; b=YzDCpoejvFD4mfGCelMpLPLw8ddmr9CcPHS1Ku1wEcIY8rlUrnx4ocbHhq3FP81V7y U0mzlZmmWXanzB6qvR8e21afX4zzn3BTIic5yHdNHKHROTSGUud//vAJZx6sRiRkNlok mOF1uSNWcSv3ujip6NumkeWleI+1DNVeEiMl8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=Wpfksv3POt6OYtx2Lr1JHf71q5hlWZw7fGqyDjAxRfFIeNQNwNVWOjegb+UJBSi5vB ojQV5uCwWzLoVLjUE9E3H+mjeFIur2LWBSq2/Qy1w17XPhx01xwzVzkmHxEsjB3YORUN UqQ8XSquuEUOvwDOprgKtdB2aGwZpUwqCa/EQ= Received: by 10.220.123.21 with SMTP id n21mr633164vcr.37.1304362210435; Mon, 02 May 2011 11:50:10 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.173.66 with SMTP id o2ls457247vcz.5.gmail; Mon, 02 May 2011 11:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.122.23 with SMTP id j23mr2889384vcr.9.1304362209589; Mon, 02 May 2011 11:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.122.23 with SMTP id j23mr2889382vcr.9.1304362209561; Mon, 02 May 2011 11:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f178.google.com (mail-qy0-f178.google.com [209.85.216.178]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j20si351508vcs.11.2011.05.02.11.50.09 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 02 May 2011 11:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.178 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.178; Received: by qyk2 with SMTP id 2so3766451qyk.16 for ; Mon, 02 May 2011 11:50:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.102.165 with SMTP id g37mr6513970qco.120.1304362209194; Mon, 02 May 2011 11:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.188.133 with HTTP; Mon, 2 May 2011 11:50:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <737349.12591.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <347891.1785.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <201105021943.53482.jezuch@interia.pl> <737349.12591.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 14:50:09 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] xorlo and default quantifiers From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.178 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00235447067423354804a24f7efb --00235447067423354804a24f7efb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I love how you say to Luke "Are you a teacher? Your ability to confuse a simple situation is profession-worthy", and the proceed to launch into a highly confusing paragraph in this letter (as well as many other emails of yours) that always leave me scratching my head :-) (on the other hand, I understand his question perfectly, so confusion is in the eye of the beholder, I guess) --gejyspa 2011/5/2 John E Clifford > I pretty sure it worked itself out over the last 35 years but that it was > ever > actually summarized somewhere, I doubt. The various meanings were not > simultaneous, but one evolved into another as we lost interest in one or > thought > we had solved it, though most have come back from time to time to haunt u= s. > I > am not sure I could describe all of them but one was collective action > (more or > less correctly described over the years), another was something called Mr= . > Broda > (for each predicate, broda) which was an intensional object of some sort, > present wherever a broda was and it all it parts (Quines infamous lavagai= , > more > or less, or some Trobriand islander) and having whatever properties any > broda > had, another was broda goo, the stuff all brodas were made of (the > extensional > analog of Mr. Broda, more or less). That's all I can think of at the > moment, > but there were more and numerous variations on these. Mr. Broda has > disappeared, > I think, but the collective sense is in xorlo and the goo sense is in > collectives of pieces of brodas. All of them floated around 'lo'. > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Krzysztof Sobolewski > To: lojban@googlegroups.com > Sent: Mon, May 2, 2011 12:43:52 PM > Subject: Re: [lojban] xorlo and default quantifiers > > Dnia poniedzia=C5=82ek, 2 maja 2011 o 17:33:07 John E Clifford napisa=C5= =82(a): > > Yucky-poo! I thought we agreed at some point never to use "mass" again= ; > it has > > > > been used over the years for at least four clearly different things and > at > >least > > > > as many that were not clear at all. All of the useful notions have bee= n > spun > > off in different ways now, so there is no need for this term. > > Is it documented somewhere? I'd rather ask for a pointer than to ask you = to > explain what are those four things etc. for a potentially a millionth tim= e > :) > -- > Ecce Jezuch > "Wired were the eyes of a horse on a jet pilot > One that smiled when he flew over the bay" - S. Tankian > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Matura 2011 - rozwiazemy dla was zadania! > Sprawdz - http://linkint.pl/f299f > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --00235447067423354804a24f7efb Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=C2=A0 I love how you say to Luke "Are you a teacher?= =C2=A0 Your ability to confuse a simple situation is profession-worthy"= ;, and the proceed to launch into a highly confusing paragraph in this lett= er (as well as many other emails of yours) that always leave me scratching = my head :-) (on the other hand, I understand his question perfectly, so con= fusion is in the eye of the beholder, I guess)

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 --gejyspa


<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">2011/5/2 John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
I pretty sure it worked itself out over the last 35 years but that it was e= ver
actually summarized somewhere, I doubt. =C2=A0The various meanings were not=
simultaneous, but one evolved into another as we lost interest in one or th= ought
we had solved it, though most have come back from time to time to haunt us.= =C2=A0I
am not sure I could describe all of them but one was collective action (mor= e or
less correctly described over the years), another was something called Mr. = Broda
(for each predicate, broda) which was an intensional object of some sort, present wherever a broda was and it all it parts (Quines infamous lavagai, = more
or less, or some Trobriand islander) and having whatever properties any bro= da
had, =C2=A0another was broda goo, the stuff all brodas were made of (the ex= tensional
analog of Mr. Broda, more or less). =C2=A0That's all I can think of at = the moment,
but there were more and numerous variations on these. Mr. Broda has disappe= ared,
I think, but the collective sense is in xorlo and the goo sense is in
collectives of pieces of brodas. =C2=A0All of them floated around 'lo&#= 39;.


----- Original Message ----
From: Krzysztof Sobolewski <jezuch@= interia.pl>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com<= br>
Sent: Mon, May 2, 2011 12:43:52 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] xorlo and default quantifiers

Dnia poniedzia=C5=82ek, 2 maja 2011= o 17:33:07 John E Clifford napisa=C5=82(a):
> Yucky-poo! =C2=A0I thought we agreed at some point never to use "= mass" again; it has
>
> been used over the years for at least four clearly different things an= d at
>least
>
> as many that were not clear at all. =C2=A0All of the useful notions ha= ve been spun
> off in different ways now, so there is no need for this term.

Is it documented somewhere? I'd rather ask for a pointer than to ask yo= u to
explain what are those four things etc. for a potentially a millionth time = :)
--
Ecce Jezuch
"Wired were the eyes of a horse on a jet pilot
One that smiled when he flew over the bay" - S. Tankian


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Matura 2011 - rozwiazemy dla was zadania!
Sprawdz - http://link= int.pl/f299f

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