From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBCv-_vtBBoE0AKrtg@googlegroups.com Mon May 02 11:53:50 2011 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QGyFd-0008Dx-P6; Mon, 02 May 2011 11:53:50 -0700 Received: by wwb13 with SMTP id 13sf10809456wwb.16 for ; Mon, 02 May 2011 11:53:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=bTncCC1khDZGiyAEJLYCMN1Z+mScpWpzfEX3rOTMYJM=; b=r8+M1MfXcMvU03CxGpG5nEqZn3OMzgdIvvYSTO6iLhRww22KWCpFUVaWqBmc9xH6dE qB4guMDS7Toqb7GPfhVa0Pi11c3uf/ZNQCMRg2kuA1ZKtFWsYviy/LAPOF+UQ9ZDoddN 2i4CVsPnXyjtPsn/1h1oZJfgfArAwfxLmL9Wk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=6Qhd7goSUQVvNA6OvekPJSMZtAaermGfSBdy6JTtyKGC42kvCHHqWCFSARZDGmoZt8 WpizZcMfVCiQWaaIsdu78e8T6rBcG7f8Il1KiGRXM0jlzhl19N/PplAsewXf5Tdx3z41 i56ncBFUOUWAoE0CanqeBVLG8oz5mt5jw/xJQ= Received: by 10.216.64.209 with SMTP id c59mr823104wed.0.1304362415369; Mon, 02 May 2011 11:53:35 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.41.227 with SMTP id h75ls438063eeb.3.gmail; Mon, 02 May 2011 11:53:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.47.78 with SMTP id s54mr617384eeb.58.1304362414301; Mon, 02 May 2011 11:53:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.47.78 with SMTP id s54mr617383eeb.58.1304362414276; Mon, 02 May 2011 11:53:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ew0-f44.google.com (mail-ew0-f44.google.com [209.85.215.44]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u51si2035398eeh.2.2011.05.02.11.53.34 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 02 May 2011 11:53:34 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.44; Received: by ewy19 with SMTP id 19so2083632ewy.3 for ; Mon, 02 May 2011 11:53:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.14.126.73 with SMTP id a49mr3363458eei.178.1304362413023; Mon, 02 May 2011 11:53:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.126.147 with HTTP; Mon, 2 May 2011 11:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.126.147 with HTTP; Mon, 2 May 2011 11:53:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <347891.1785.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <201105021943.53482.jezuch@interia.pl> <737349.12591.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 14:53:32 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] xorlo and default quantifiers From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.44 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e0cb4e6ffac349622504a24f8af5 --e0cb4e6ffac349622504a24f8af5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Haha thanks gejyspa. You just made my day. :) On May 2, 2011 2:50 PM, "Michael Turniansky" wrote: > I love how you say to Luke "Are you a teacher? Your ability to confuse a > simple situation is profession-worthy", and the proceed to launch into a > highly confusing paragraph in this letter (as well as many other emails o= f > yours) that always leave me scratching my head :-) (on the other hand, I > understand his question perfectly, so confusion is in the eye of the > beholder, I guess) > > --gejyspa > > > 2011/5/2 John E Clifford > >> I pretty sure it worked itself out over the last 35 years but that it wa= s >> ever >> actually summarized somewhere, I doubt. The various meanings were not >> simultaneous, but one evolved into another as we lost interest in one or >> thought >> we had solved it, though most have come back from time to time to haunt us. >> I >> am not sure I could describe all of them but one was collective action >> (more or >> less correctly described over the years), another was something called Mr. >> Broda >> (for each predicate, broda) which was an intensional object of some sort= , >> present wherever a broda was and it all it parts (Quines infamous lavagai, >> more >> or less, or some Trobriand islander) and having whatever properties any >> broda >> had, another was broda goo, the stuff all brodas were made of (the >> extensional >> analog of Mr. Broda, more or less). That's all I can think of at the >> moment, >> but there were more and numerous variations on these. Mr. Broda has >> disappeared, >> I think, but the collective sense is in xorlo and the goo sense is in >> collectives of pieces of brodas. All of them floated around 'lo'. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Krzysztof Sobolewski >> To: lojban@googlegroups.com >> Sent: Mon, May 2, 2011 12:43:52 PM >> Subject: Re: [lojban] xorlo and default quantifiers >> >> Dnia poniedzia=B3ek, 2 maja 2011 o 17:33:07 John E Clifford napisa=B3(a)= : >> > Yucky-poo! I thought we agreed at some point never to use "mass" again= ; >> it has >> > >> > been used over the years for at least four clearly different things an= d >> at >> >least >> > >> > as many that were not clear at all. All of the useful notions have bee= n >> spun >> > off in different ways now, so there is no need for this term. >> >> Is it documented somewhere? I'd rather ask for a pointer than to ask you to >> explain what are those four things etc. for a potentially a millionth time >> :) >> -- >> Ecce Jezuch >> "Wired were the eyes of a horse on a jet pilot >> One that smiled when he flew over the bay" - S. Tankian >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Matura 2011 - rozwiazemy dla was zadania! >> Sprawdz - http://linkint.pl/f299f >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --e0cb4e6ffac349622504a24f8af5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Haha thanks gejyspa.=C2=A0 You just made my day.=C2=A0 :)

On May 2, 2011 2:50 PM, "Michael Turniansky= " <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
> I love how you say to Luke &qu= ot;Are you a teacher? Your ability to confuse a
> simple situation is profession-worthy", and the proceed to launch= into a
> highly confusing paragraph in this letter (as well as many = other emails of
> yours) that always leave me scratching my head :-) = (on the other hand, I
> understand his question perfectly, so confusion is in the eye of the> beholder, I guess)
>
> --gejyspa
>
&= gt;
> 2011/5/2 John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
>
>> I pretty sure it worked itself out over the last 35 years= but that it was
>> ever
>> actually summarized somewhere= , I doubt. The various meanings were not
>> simultaneous, but one= evolved into another as we lost interest in one or
>> thought
>> we had solved it, though most have come back f= rom time to time to haunt us.
>> I
>> am not sure I coul= d describe all of them but one was collective action
>> (more or >> less correctly described over the years), another was something ca= lled Mr.
>> Broda
>> (for each predicate, broda) which wa= s an intensional object of some sort,
>> present wherever a broda = was and it all it parts (Quines infamous lavagai,
>> more
>> or less, or some Trobriand islander) and having w= hatever properties any
>> broda
>> had, another was brod= a goo, the stuff all brodas were made of (the
>> extensional
>> analog of Mr. Broda, more or less). That's all I can think of= at the
>> moment,
>> but there were more and numerous va= riations on these. Mr. Broda has
>> disappeared,
>> I thi= nk, but the collective sense is in xorlo and the goo sense is in
>> collectives of pieces of brodas. All of them floated around '= lo'.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ---->> From: Krzysztof Sobolewski <jezuch@interia.pl>
>> To: lojban@googlegroups= .com
>> Sent: Mon, May 2, 2011 12:43:52 PM
>> Subject= : Re: [lojban] xorlo and default quantifiers
>>
>> Dnia p= oniedzia=C5=82ek, 2 maja 2011 o 17:33:07 John E Clifford napisa=C5=82(a): >> > Yucky-poo! I thought we agreed at some point never to use &q= uot;mass" again;
>> it has
>> >
>> > = been used over the years for at least four clearly different things and
>> at
>> >least
>> >
>> > as many= that were not clear at all. All of the useful notions have been
>&g= t; spun
>> > off in different ways now, so there is no need for= this term.
>>
>> Is it documented somewhere? I'd rather ask for a p= ointer than to ask you to
>> explain what are those four things et= c. for a potentially a millionth time
>> :)
>> --
>> Ecce Jezuch
>> "Wired were the eyes of a horse on a = jet pilot
>> One that smiled when he flew over the bay" - S. = Tankian
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------= ---------------------------------------
>> Matura 2011 - rozwiazemy dla was zadania!
>> Sprawdz - http://linkint.pl/f299f
>>>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscri= bed to the Google Groups
>> "lojban" group.
>> To post to this group, send = email to lojban@googlegroups.com= .
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>= lojban+unsubscrib= e@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lo= jban?hl=3Den.
>>
>> --
>> You received this = message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "lojban" group.
>> To post to this group, send = email to lojban@googlegroups.com= .
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>= lojban+unsubscrib= e@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lo= jban?hl=3Den.
>>
>>
>
> --
> You = received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= ;lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this gro= up, send email to = lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den= .
>

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