From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRCzqPztBBoEyfFq1A@googlegroups.com Mon May 02 13:29:54 2011 Received: from mail-pw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.160.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QGzka-0004E0-In; Mon, 02 May 2011 13:29:53 -0700 Received: by pwi1 with SMTP id 1sf3915156pwi.16 for ; Mon, 02 May 2011 13:29:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-smtp :x-ymail-osg:x-yahoo-newman-property:references:in-reply-to :x-apple-yahoo-original-message-folder:mime-version:message-id :x-mailer:from:x-apple-yahoo-replied-msgid:subject:date:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kDk18XPCRKM+hJCeByb/oQd78huqZde6HLKpKIG+mFg=; b=291igMxzu6cebPkaFB/Zjba8rH1MELsqa1jLg3CJ9avvqmwcOlvPQzDqQ17+oBtNYr TMA8+pCvXoXz8ggq6hpo6brQE+EPuA2u5EMSG7LBMxw+5CV39f/zQmyQePELM8mGgzJl +ksXIDT02XTzFAbrPF5XDUWB0ORv7/LMGBDAs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-smtp:x-ymail-osg :x-yahoo-newman-property:references:in-reply-to :x-apple-yahoo-original-message-folder:mime-version:message-id :x-mailer:from:x-apple-yahoo-replied-msgid:subject:date:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=ozCeOLWowyjILUv43rZygUnphR4ab5jIioL+1JtNky4d/mzqU+FYwGpP3y21T+xAip yHFuKt6Sf4OtGWKCvuO2I87o79dGN8CBISqHe5ZdB7o2afp7z6ts9ymbDxROw3/KNSki fte391OZTfAJOmplo+/GJ4oIKCsMQLyi7cQFI= Received: by 10.68.49.199 with SMTP id w7mr968723pbn.35.1304368179071; Mon, 02 May 2011 13:29:39 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.39.41 with SMTP id m9ls540331pbk.2.gmail; Mon, 02 May 2011 13:29:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.28.193 with SMTP id d1mr1208626pbh.91.1304368161158; Mon, 02 May 2011 13:29:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.28.193 with SMTP id d1mr1208625pbh.91.1304368161121; Mon, 02 May 2011 13:29:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp115-mob.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (smtp115-mob.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.136.185.206]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id h8si2774614pba.12.2011.05.02.13.29.20; Mon, 02 May 2011 13:29:21 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.136.185.206 as permitted sender) client-ip=98.136.185.206; Received: (qmail 66783 invoked from network); 2 May 2011 20:29:03 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.68] (kali9putra@99.92.108.41 with xymcookie) by smtp115-mob.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 02 May 2011 13:29:02 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: xvGyF4GswBCIFKGaxf5wSjlg3RF108g- X-YMail-OSG: 7S6n9hYVM1m15PnGElxf6CGYkQC4dsp0aMFCoQ2kx5YSRE. DvI61K3Sa8bPl286u_HvHWfQBTk74b2Q_94cqCzjFCTaEQsVKcD6y1FMHYNf Y4jl5YKrps2d6MpCFO_mi66RGwk4Zc4K6N4cIIemm1GySK.imD_ktThvnpKg B6HGp_tiqVdKpXXYwyrovhOeHObzIIiNyWQ5LAM1HqRzLH8vDmmSJugSEXK1 xU72XJP7CEG8lDDmciszRKnyzPF1P_Pej5JWhlAj5sJKMK_NE7nJqoGv4VO1 QOJOPPNP5jUg4yFdFgWSMCzdwNtQkgaPotJ5PsA0MzV4injuq30.ZySz_dtl FmP6d.8xyMCnBKnX2Rxn6t.kxduFenAShEGtHqNEPcp7J.Xjv0uxjvSd1Hde IJA-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 References: <347891.1785.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <201105021943.53482.jezuch@interia.pl> <737349.12591.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: X-Apple-Yahoo-Original-Message-Folder: AAlojbanery Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8G4) Message-Id: <770130C4-1AF0-4060-AC2A-F209952E0AA9@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8G4) From: "John E. Clifford" X-Apple-Yahoo-Replied-Msgid: 1_8183374_AHvHjkQAAV6nTb785wF4IAqFXi0 Subject: Re: [lojban] xorlo and default quantifiers Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 15:30:16 -0500 To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.136.185.206 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1--356490750 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-1--356490750 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 But I am a teacher . Sorry if that was not clear; I've come at it every wa= y I can think of. Any suggestions? Sent from my iPad On May 2, 2011, at 13:50, Michael Turniansky wrote: > I love how you say to Luke "Are you a teacher? Your ability to confuse= a simple situation is profession-worthy", and the proceed to launch into a= highly confusing paragraph in this letter (as well as many other emails of= yours) that always leave me scratching my head :-) (on the other hand, I u= nderstand his question perfectly, so confusion is in the eye of the beholde= r, I guess) >=20 > --gejyspa >=20 >=20 > 2011/5/2 John E Clifford > I pretty sure it worked itself out over the last 35 years but that it was= ever > actually summarized somewhere, I doubt. The various meanings were not > simultaneous, but one evolved into another as we lost interest in one or = thought > we had solved it, though most have come back from time to time to haunt u= s. I > am not sure I could describe all of them but one was collective action (m= ore or > less correctly described over the years), another was something called Mr= . Broda > (for each predicate, broda) which was an intensional object of some sort, > present wherever a broda was and it all it parts (Quines infamous lavagai= , more > or less, or some Trobriand islander) and having whatever properties any b= roda > had, another was broda goo, the stuff all brodas were made of (the exten= sional > analog of Mr. Broda, more or less). That's all I can think of at the mom= ent, > but there were more and numerous variations on these. Mr. Broda has disap= peared, > I think, but the collective sense is in xorlo and the goo sense is in > collectives of pieces of brodas. All of them floated around 'lo'. >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Krzysztof Sobolewski > To: lojban@googlegroups.com > Sent: Mon, May 2, 2011 12:43:52 PM > Subject: Re: [lojban] xorlo and default quantifiers >=20 > Dnia poniedzia=C5=82ek, 2 maja 2011 o 17:33:07 John E Clifford napisa=C5= =82(a): > > Yucky-poo! I thought we agreed at some point never to use "mass" again= ; it has > > > > been used over the years for at least four clearly different things and= at > >least > > > > as many that were not clear at all. All of the useful notions have bee= n spun > > off in different ways now, so there is no need for this term. >=20 > Is it documented somewhere? I'd rather ask for a pointer than to ask you = to > explain what are those four things etc. for a potentially a millionth tim= e :) > -- > Ecce Jezuch > "Wired were the eyes of a horse on a jet pilot > One that smiled when he flew over the bay" - S. Tankian >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Matura 2011 - rozwiazemy dla was zadania! > Sprawdz - http://linkint.pl/f299f >=20 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >=20 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. >=20 >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --Apple-Mail-1--356490750 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
But I am a teacher .  Sorry if th= at was not clear; I've come at it every way I can think of.  Any sugge= stions?

Sent from my iPad
On May 2, 2011, at 13:50, Michae= l Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail= .com> wrote:

=
  I love how you say to Luke "Are you a teacher? = ; Your ability to confuse a simple situation is profession-worthy", and the= proceed to launch into a highly confusing paragraph in this letter (as wel= l as many other emails of yours) that always leave me scratching my head :-= ) (on the other hand, I understand his question perfectly, so confusion is = in the eye of the beholder, I guess)

         --gejyspa


<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">2011/5/2 John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
I pretty sure it worked itself out over the last 35 years but that it was e= ver
actually summarized somewhere, I doubt.  The various meanings were not=
simultaneous, but one evolved into another as we lost interest in one or th= ought
we had solved it, though most have come back from time to time to haunt us.=  I
am not sure I could describe all of them but one was collective action (mor= e or
less correctly described over the years), another was something called Mr. = Broda
(for each predicate, broda) which was an intensional object of some sort, present wherever a broda was and it all it parts (Quines infamous lavagai, = more
or less, or some Trobriand islander) and having whatever properties any bro= da
had,  another was broda goo, the stuff all brodas were made of (the ex= tensional
analog of Mr. Broda, more or less).  That's all I can think of at the = moment,
but there were more and numerous variations on these. Mr. Broda has disappe= ared,
I think, but the collective sense is in xorlo and the goo sense is in
collectives of pieces of brodas.  All of them floated around 'lo'.


----- Original Message ----
From: Krzysztof Sobolewski <jezuch@interia.pl>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, May 2, 2011 12:43:52 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] xorlo and default quantifiers

Dnia poniedzia=C5=82ek, 2 maja 2011= o 17:33:07 John E Clifford napisa=C5=82(a):
> Yucky-poo!  I thought we agreed at some point never to use "mass"= again; it has
>
> been used over the years for at least four clearly different things an= d at
>least
>
> as many that were not clear at all.  All of the useful notions ha= ve been spun
> off in different ways now, so there is no need for this term.

Is it documented somewhere? I'd rather ask for a pointer than to ask you to=
explain what are those four things etc. for a potentially a millionth time = :)
--
Ecce Jezuch
"Wired were the eyes of a horse on a jet pilot
One that smiled when he flew over the bay" - S. Tankian


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Matura 2011 - rozwiazemy dla was zadania!
Sprawdz - http://linkint.pl/f299f

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