From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBCtk5XvBBoEwvxpSg@googlegroups.com Tue May 31 13:04:13 2011 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QRVAf-0004bC-9y; Tue, 31 May 2011 13:04:13 -0700 Received: by wwb13 with SMTP id 13sf13778790wwb.16 for ; Tue, 31 May 2011 13:04:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=8XSwdO3uOoATMRWCJo3RPYhkTtRqoocfcmX7PP4k4tA=; b=ST6csTC9yK/ZMAjhENMYtaDQITyurZgflELLwqr0uEWhk2olBo9IhnVOaLSlMGRdJb VrXu3jXuNjf88fVs/YOqZwF+TKkv41gSm//MOoxcyZIjuxBs1WTHT2yzZC5UGNVi6LbR zdfqjkkOqYRvPlyLXlHfx/8xpdHAO1tQqHOwo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=LH1WRJNNOxvwCy7HnANdMmKjIy4vef20qv78SPsZigbrFuDRpkkdmMBnNkOtrCkOm/ CGmlOXA7Rdybu5wMDI/347YJpvmCgkbJKWEF36PP2oqpJGwmiNJpX+etNhkGRmao6Xfn Sc5LJuWK6eyigr7+HLQxR4uVsl6QPuP4unbRo= Received: by 10.216.143.92 with SMTP id k70mr2703269wej.2.1306872238014; Tue, 31 May 2011 13:03:58 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.14.136 with SMTP id d8ls720105eed.6.gmail; Tue, 31 May 2011 13:03:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.11.78 with SMTP id 54mr1605764eew.6.1306872236773; Tue, 31 May 2011 13:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.11.78 with SMTP id 54mr1605763eew.6.1306872236740; Tue, 31 May 2011 13:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ey0-f174.google.com (mail-ey0-f174.google.com [209.85.215.174]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x47si280818eef.1.2011.05.31.13.03.56 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 31 May 2011 13:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.174 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.174; Received: by eyx24 with SMTP id 24so2179840eyx.5 for ; Tue, 31 May 2011 13:03:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.14.43.19 with SMTP id k19mr2348216eeb.187.1306872236520; Tue, 31 May 2011 13:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.47.8 with HTTP; Tue, 31 May 2011 13:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.47.8 with HTTP; Tue, 31 May 2011 13:03:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20110531185400.GH11152@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 16:03:56 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] [nomik] English explanation of our nomic attempt (it's really very simple) From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.174 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175caad06cb50a04a497e7b6 --0015175caad06cb50a04a497e7b6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm sure the first several rules will be about turn order and voting On May 31, 2011 4:01 PM, "Michael Turniansky" wrote: > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Robin Lee Powell > wrote: >> >> OK, so, some of us are trying to play a Nomic game in Lojban. >> Nomic, generally speaking, is a game where the basic gameplay is to >> change the rules of the game, until some combination of rules claims >> that someone has won. >> >> Open Nomics tend to get incredibly complicated, and can sometimes >> run for a very long time (years). I don't much enjoy that, and >> that's not what we're playing. >> >> We're playing a simplified Nomic called Fantasy Rules Committee. >> >> The main rules for FRC are here: >> >> https://groups.google.com/group/frc-play/web/regular-ordinances-revised-oct-2007 >> >> but that makes them look a lot more complicated than they are; >> here's the super-simplified version: >> >> There are real rules and fantasy rules; rounds consist of posting >> fantasy rules, which must all be consistent with each other; you >> can only post a fantasy rule if you have in the past week; at the >> beginning, everyone is considered to have posted; last one capable >> of posting wins >> >> Here's the slightly less simplified version: >> >> - there are real rules/ordinances/{ralju javni}; these are the >> actual rules of the game, and require a 2/3 majority to change >> >> - there are also fantasy rules/{javni}/{draci javni}/{zdile javni}; >> posting fantasy rules is how the game is played; they are often >> very silly; all fantasy rules that the judge believes do not >> contradict other fantasy rules go into force immediately upon >> adjudication >> >> - a round starts with the judge (last round's winner) declaring a >> theme for the round; the person with the most score points for the >> previous round is the Wizard for the next round, but I've no idea >> what this actually does; I assume fantasy rules sometimes refer to >> it >> > > Rule 8. The wizard can ALSO bestow style points, from -1 to 1. > >> - rounds consist of posting fantasy rules, which must all be >> consistent with each other, and should be consistent with the >> theme >> >> - the judge declares if a rule is consistent, and awards it score >> points for style and consistency with the theme >> >> - you can only post a fantasy rule if you have in the past week; at >> the beginning, everyone is considered to have posted >> >> - the last person capable of posting wins; this means that each >> round continues until interest wears out, at which point people's >> weeks of allowed posting start expiring, and the last one who >> posted a rule when everyone else has expired wins >> >> We're playing it mostly in Lojban. People are welcome to translate >> what they, or others, have said into English, though. >> >> We haven't actually started a round, because we need a judge and a >> theme. As a random side comment, I thought a meta-Lojban theme >> (like "must not contain abstractions") would be fun, but I don't >> want to judge, as I want to participate. >> >> -Robin > > Okay, so there is no turn structure, or voting on fantasy rules? > They are just propsed at will, and automatically come into effect if > judged valid? Seems a little... chaotic? > --gejyspa > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0015175caad06cb50a04a497e7b6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I'm sure the first several rules will be about turn order and voting=

On May 31, 2011 4:01 PM, "Michael Turniansk= y" <mturniansky@gmail.com<= /a>> wrote:
> On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 2:54 PM= , Robin Lee Powell
> <rlpowell@digitalkin= gdom.org> wrote:
>>
>> OK, so, some of us are tryi= ng to play a Nomic game in Lojban.
>> Nomic, generally speaking, i= s a game where the basic gameplay is to
>> change the rules of the game, until some combination of rules clai= ms
>> that someone has won.
>>
>> Open Nomics te= nd to get incredibly complicated, and can sometimes
>> run for a v= ery long time (years). =A0I don't much enjoy that, and
>> that's not what we're playing.
>>
>> We&= #39;re playing a simplified Nomic called Fantasy Rules Committee.
>&g= t;
>> The main rules for FRC are here:
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/group/frc-play/web/regular-ordinan= ces-revised-oct-2007
>>
>> but that makes them look a lot more complicated than t= hey are;
>> here's the super-simplified version:
>>>> =A0There are real rules and fantasy rules; rounds consist of pos= ting
>> =A0fantasy rules, which must all be consistent with each other; yo= u
>> =A0can only post a fantasy rule if you have in the past week;= at the
>> =A0beginning, everyone is considered to have posted; la= st one capable
>> =A0of posting wins
>>
>> Here's the slightly= less simplified version:
>>
>> - there are real rules/or= dinances/{ralju javni}; these are the
>> =A0actual rules of the ga= me, and require a 2/3 majority to change
>>
>> - there are also fantasy rules/{javni}/{draci javni}/{= zdile javni};
>> =A0posting fantasy rules is how the game is playe= d; they are often
>> =A0very silly; all fantasy rules that the jud= ge believes do not
>> =A0contradict other fantasy rules go into force immediately upon>> =A0adjudication
>>
>> - a round starts with th= e judge (last round's winner) declaring a
>> =A0theme for the = round; the person with the most score points for the
>> =A0previous round is the Wizard for the next round, but I've n= o idea
>> =A0what this actually does; I assume fantasy rules somet= imes refer to
>> =A0it
>>
>
> Rule 8. The= wizard can ALSO bestow style points, from -1 to 1.
>
>> - rounds consist of posting fantasy rules, which must all= be
>> =A0consistent with each other, and should be consistent wit= h the
>> =A0theme
>>
>> - the judge declares if = a rule is consistent, and awards it score
>> =A0points for style and consistency with the theme
>>
= >> - you can only post a fantasy rule if you have in the past week; a= t
>> =A0the beginning, everyone is considered to have posted
&g= t;>
>> - the last person capable of posting wins; this means that each>> =A0round continues until interest wears out, at which point peopl= e's
>> =A0weeks of allowed posting start expiring, and the las= t one who
>> =A0posted a rule when everyone else has expired wins
>>>> We're playing it mostly in Lojban. =A0People are welcome to = translate
>> what they, or others, have said into English, though.=
>>
>> We haven't actually started a round, because we ne= ed a judge and a
>> theme. =A0As a random side comment, I thought = a meta-Lojban theme
>> (like "must not contain abstractions&q= uot;) would be fun, but I don't
>> want to judge, as I want to participate.
>>
>> -= Robin
>
> Okay, so there is no turn structure, or voting on = fantasy rules?
> They are just propsed at will, and automatically com= e into effect if
> judged valid? Seems a little... chaotic?
> --ge= jyspa
>
> --
> You received this message because you ar= e subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
> To post= to this group, send email to lo= jban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--0015175caad06cb50a04a497e7b6--