From lojban+bncCOib25n_BhCw9ZbvBBoEaGbjNg@googlegroups.com Tue May 31 21:06:22 2011 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QRchH-0005SO-Fa; Tue, 31 May 2011 21:06:22 -0700 Received: by gyf1 with SMTP id 1sf7302995gyf.16 for ; Tue, 31 May 2011 21:06:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=qlTsXI5PJGgJxR01WFVM0eQbzThepoi4DQstwxJcvvQ=; b=OEeuNCv1d6vUZgjDbSEv7CBQVcty1E7tRxg2YFh8NjtBMvMZ+EBpO1kmdpoVkjxlkV x5szaMg/IHIN8u+x0SxI6gJi/kxH88OixNTcwxl/PlF0Y3t4Tgs5IR9uVK30AGVcxAyf 7gmf2gfTo9cPlFPOO2WvXAfsSHDV1p/QbkA/4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=wMIV05diwBjoVof0wbGGa5jpllyJ6NAzQ5cSDGJ6CH7wIrW12vU2TsGyOG+qdQCbeb wXuQ/DQYoehg+T09pb40bMGBRO4yvRu+UifCfJhBqY/4+HguY/Xr3cnflCBh89OAWjKQ 8XZD4QhWhAmwuPPwgrQ1jQxLyYzbzPNGAN6fA= Received: by 10.146.63.19 with SMTP id l19mr825725yaa.18.1306901168492; Tue, 31 May 2011 21:06:08 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.151.33.30 with SMTP id l30ls68699ybj.0.gmail; Tue, 31 May 2011 21:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.138.169 with SMTP id a29mr4646586yhj.25.1306901167778; Tue, 31 May 2011 21:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.138.169 with SMTP id a29mr4646584yhj.25.1306901167741; Tue, 31 May 2011 21:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f47.google.com (mail-bw0-f47.google.com [209.85.214.47]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j21si399403yhi.3.2011.05.31.21.06.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 31 May 2011 21:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.47; Received: by bwz5 with SMTP id 5so5245319bwz.20 for ; Tue, 31 May 2011 21:06:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.205.35.1 with SMTP id su1mr6205210bkb.129.1306901164204; Tue, 31 May 2011 21:06:04 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.166.130 with HTTP; Tue, 31 May 2011 21:06:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20110601011832.GU11152@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20110601001607.GS11152@digitalkingdom.org> <20110601011832.GU11152@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 00:06:04 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] [nomik] pa mo'o ci moi javni From: ".arpis." To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rpglover64@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rpglover64@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.47 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rpglover64@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec52c64dfa622cf04a49ea3a9 --bcaec52c64dfa622cf04a49ea3a9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 mi mutce nalmo'i .oi sai tu'a zo ju But {ju} is unfortunately logically incorrect for "despite" (as I understand "despite"). It's kinda like {seku'i} (if {ku'i} weren't a UI): "A [and] however B" vs "A [and] despite B" In both cases, "A and B" is entailed, however the first implicates that A usually entails not B, and the second implicates that B usually entails not A. Also, am I using {du'u} correctly? I tend to think of it when I am tempted in English to say "that" or "the fact that" (and {nu} when I use the infinitive) On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Robin Lee Powell < rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 09:02:44PM -0400, .arpis. wrote: > > .i drani > > .i li pi mu te sumji ki'u lo du'u filsmu seja'enai lo du'u barda > > That reminds me that we need to nail down that whole "despite" > thing; .oi > > What you did is just fine; I also reccomend {ju} to your attention; > one of the few places I like logical connections for causal-type > thoughts. > > > .i li pi mu te sumji ki'u lo du'u mi selzdi > > .i li pi mu te sumji ki'u lo du'u citri vajni > > .i li pi mu te sumji ki'u lo du'u zdile palci pe'a zo'o co'e > > .i li re sumji > > .io se'i .e'e .ui ro'a > > -Robin > > -- > http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- mu'o mi'e .arpis. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --bcaec52c64dfa622cf04a49ea3a9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable mi mutce nalmo'i .oi sai tu'a zo ju

But {ju} is unfortunatel= y logically incorrect for "despite" (as I understand "despit= e"). It's kinda like {seku'i} (if {ku'i} weren't a UI)= :
"A [and] however B" vs "A [and] despite B"
In both c= ases, "A and B" is entailed, however the first implicates that A = usually entails not B, and the second implicates that B usually entails not= A.

Also, am I using {du'u} correctly? I tend to think of it when I am = tempted in English to say "that" or "the fact that" (an= d {nu} when I use the infinitive)

On Tue,= May 31, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 0= 9:02:44PM -0400, .arpis. wrote:
> .i drani
> .i li pi mu te sumji ki'u lo du'u filsmu seja'enai lo du&#= 39;u barda

That reminds me that we need to nail down that whole "despite&qu= ot;
thing; .oi

What you did is just fine; I also reccomend {ju} to your attention;
one of the few places I like logical connections for causal-type
thoughts.

> .i li pi mu te sumji ki'u lo du'u mi selzdi
> .i li pi mu te sumji ki'u lo du'u citri vajni
> .i li pi mu te sumji ki'u lo du'u zdile palci pe'a zo'= o co'e
> .i li re sumji

.io se'i .e'e .ui ro'a

-Robin

--
http://singinst.org/= : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.loj= ban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this senten= ce is false"
is "na nei". =A0 My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
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--
mu'o mi= 'e .arpis.

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