From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBCKg4DuBBoETw439Q@googlegroups.com Tue May 03 06:22:33 2011 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QHFYa-0002ac-Cv; Tue, 03 May 2011 06:22:33 -0700 Received: by wya21 with SMTP id 21sf59400wya.16 for ; Tue, 03 May 2011 06:22:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=YJa5NzXJDcxc/o3UxGpp027rfo4keqBgHwlN/q+sQC0=; b=Qop2dzeBCsYGIrjeM0u3Xc1rhuAO/Mw0s/JkmZBF9md3Vr2kvROxF+RvJKXXQM6UH5 RmOPH9cxlGEYVL+rtC2joysutZV+lT0y4ChCcIqzl9K0cQxS8+9isdndPvB201t1nnX5 6EIGAx9ffKZGuN3OUf/cFGdj1nPPOOzy6eIWk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=sNF2f5g7O6qlHhcLsH8pYkEZlx2jpGbdyqm5lozqC5vDzzN9bmzAdmCDiaEsvWXeue mm4bKR8L/uEsX5jrpYn3VcpNanOn4ox2ReqgRZIZtB3Awyf2FCqiz+80QiSkOacP0dV1 0RlJFhrynZuZXDpSJAeNnyiFo/+D0Cpp576t4= Received: by 10.216.58.130 with SMTP id q2mr236132wec.0.1304428938125; Tue, 03 May 2011 06:22:18 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.41.98 with SMTP id g74ls40200eeb.5.gmail; Tue, 03 May 2011 06:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.122.147 with SMTP id t19mr699548eeh.53.1304428936376; Tue, 03 May 2011 06:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.122.147 with SMTP id t19mr699547eeh.53.1304428936347; Tue, 03 May 2011 06:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ew0-f49.google.com (mail-ew0-f49.google.com [209.85.215.49]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l51si26106eei.4.2011.05.03.06.22.16 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 03 May 2011 06:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.49 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.49; Received: by ewy3 with SMTP id 3so19756ewy.36 for ; Tue, 03 May 2011 06:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.134.79 with SMTP id r55mr3924151eei.18.1304428936128; Tue, 03 May 2011 06:22:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.14.126.147 with HTTP; Tue, 3 May 2011 06:21:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <347891.1785.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <201105021943.53482.jezuch@interia.pl> <737349.12591.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <770130C4-1AF0-4060-AC2A-F209952E0AA9@yahoo.com> From: Luke Bergen Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 09:21:56 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] xorlo and default quantifiers To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf303b3fd15f689704a25f0775 --20cf303b3fd15f689704a25f0775 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable .u'i do tcetce cizra lo jbopre .i pe'i so'e lo nintadni cu cusku lo glibau befi lu mi nintadni .iku'i mi jinvi lo du'u mi cilre tai traji sutra va'o l= o nu mi pilno lo jbobau ca lo nu mi cilre li'u 2011/5/3 Michael Turniansky > .ua .i ganai mi pu djuno lo du'u go'e gi mi tolmo'i .i ku'i mi ba'e ca > jimpe lo du'u lo jei da fi'urgau cu dunli lo jei da ctuca .i ku'i pa'a l= o > nu mi pu so'iroi cusku kei mi se cinri lo nu lanli ro cmacma tcila be le > bangu nagi'e pilno ri .i mi sanji lo du'u la'e di'u cu nibli lo du'u mi > cizra kei lo lojbo > > --gejyspa > > > On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 4:30 PM, John E. Clifford wr= ote: > >> But I am a teacher . Sorry if that was not clear; I've come at it every >> way I can think of. Any suggestions? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> On May 2, 2011, at 13:50, Michael Turniansky >> wrote: >> >> I love how you say to Luke "Are you a teacher? Your ability to confus= e >> a simple situation is profession-worthy", and the proceed to launch into= a >> highly confusing paragraph in this letter (as well as many other emails = of >> yours) that always leave me scratching my head :-) (on the other hand, I >> understand his question perfectly, so confusion is in the eye of the >> beholder, I guess) >> >> --gejyspa >> >> >> 2011/5/2 John E Clifford < kali9putra@yahoo.com> >> >>> I pretty sure it worked itself out over the last 35 years but that it w= as >>> ever >>> actually summarized somewhere, I doubt. The various meanings were not >>> simultaneous, but one evolved into another as we lost interest in one o= r >>> thought >>> we had solved it, though most have come back from time to time to haunt >>> us. I >>> am not sure I could describe all of them but one was collective action >>> (more or >>> less correctly described over the years), another was something called >>> Mr. Broda >>> (for each predicate, broda) which was an intensional object of some sor= t, >>> present wherever a broda was and it all it parts (Quines infamous >>> lavagai, more >>> or less, or some Trobriand islander) and having whatever properties any >>> broda >>> had, another was broda goo, the stuff all brodas were made of (the >>> extensional >>> analog of Mr. Broda, more or less). That's all I can think of at the >>> moment, >>> but there were more and numerous variations on these. Mr. Broda has >>> disappeared, >>> I think, but the collective sense is in xorlo and the goo sense is in >>> collectives of pieces of brodas. All of them floated around 'lo'. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ---- >>> From: Krzysztof Sobolewski < jezuch@interia.pl> >>> To: lojban@googlegroups.com >>> Sent: Mon, May 2, 2011 12:43:52 PM >>> Subject: Re: [lojban] xorlo and default quantifiers >>> >>> Dnia poniedzia=B3ek, 2 maja 2011 o 17:33:07 John E Clifford napisa=B3(a= ): >>> > Yucky-poo! I thought we agreed at some point never to use "mass" >>> again; it has >>> > >>> > been used over the years for at least four clearly different things a= nd >>> at >>> >least >>> > >>> > as many that were not clear at all. All of the useful notions have >>> been spun >>> > off in different ways now, so there is no need for this term. >>> >>> Is it documented somewhere? I'd rather ask for a pointer than to ask yo= u >>> to >>> explain what are those four things etc. for a potentially a millionth >>> time :) >>> -- >>> Ecce Jezuch >>> "Wired were the eyes of a horse on a jet pilot >>> One that smiled when he flew over the bay" - S. Tankian >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Matura 2011 - rozwiazemy dla was zadania! >>> Sprawdz - http://linkint.pl/f299f >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps >>> "lojban" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to >>> lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps >>> "lojban" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to >>> lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --20cf303b3fd15f689704a25f0775 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable .u'i do tcetce cizra lo jbopre .i pe'i so'e lo nintadni cu cusk= u lo glibau befi lu mi nintadni .iku'i mi jinvi lo du'u mi cilre ta= i traji sutra va'o lo nu mi pilno lo jbobau ca lo nu mi cilre li'u<= br>
2011/5/3 Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>= ;
.ua .i ganai mi pu djuno lo du'u go'e gi mi tolmo&= #39;i .i ku'i mi ba'e ca=A0 jimpe lo du'u=A0 lo jei da fi'u= rgau cu dunli lo jei da ctuca .i ku'i pa'a lo nu mi pu so'iroi = cusku kei=A0 mi se cinri lo nu lanli ro cmacma tcila be le bangu nagi'e= pilno ri .i mi sanji lo du'u la'e di'u cu nibli lo du'u=A0= mi cizra kei lo lojbo

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa


On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 4:30 = PM, John E. Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
But I am a teacher . =A0Sorry if that was not= clear; I've come at it every way I can think of. =A0Any suggestions?
Sent from my iPad
On May 2, 2011, at 1= 3:50, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:

<= /div>
=A0 I love how you say to Luke "Are you a t= eacher?=A0 Your ability to confuse a simple situation is profession-worthy&= quot;, and the proceed to launch into a highly confusing paragraph in this = letter (as well as many other emails of yours) that always leave me scratch= ing my head :-) (on the other hand, I understand his question perfectly, so= confusion is in the eye of the beholder, I guess)

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa


2011/5/2 John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
I pretty sure it worked itself out over the last 35 years but that it was e= ver
actually summarized somewhere, I doubt. =A0The various meanings were not simultaneous, but one evolved into another as we lost interest in one or th= ought
we had solved it, though most have come back from time to time to haunt us.= =A0I
am not sure I could describe all of them but one was collective action (mor= e or
less correctly described over the years), another was something called Mr. = Broda
(for each predicate, broda) which was an intensional object of some sort, present wherever a broda was and it all it parts (Quines infamous lavagai, = more
or less, or some Trobriand islander) and having whatever properties any bro= da
had, =A0another was broda goo, the stuff all brodas were made of (the exten= sional
analog of Mr. Broda, more or less). =A0That's all I can think of at the= moment,
but there were more and numerous variations on these. Mr. Broda has disappe= ared,
I think, but the collective sense is in xorlo and the goo sense is in
collectives of pieces of brodas. =A0All of them floated around 'lo'= .


----- Original Message ----
From: Krzysztof Sobolewski <jezu= ch@interia.pl>
To: lojban@googlegroups.= com
Sent: Mon, May 2, 2011 12:43:52 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] xorlo and default quantifiers

Dnia poniedzia=B3ek, 2 maja 2011 o 17:33:07 John= E Clifford napisa=B3(a):
> Yucky-poo! =A0I thought we agreed at some point never to use "mas= s" again; it has
>
> been used over the years for at least four clearly different things an= d at
>least
>
> as many that were not clear at all. =A0All of the useful notions have = been spun
> off in different ways now, so there is no need for this term.

Is it documented somewhere? I'd rather ask for a pointer than to ask yo= u to
explain what are those four things etc. for a potentially a millionth time = :)
--
Ecce Jezuch
"Wired were the eyes of a horse on a jet pilot
One that smiled when he flew over the bay" - S. Tankian


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Matura 2011 - rozwiazemy dla was zadania!
Sprawdz - http://linkint.pl/f299f<= br>
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