From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBCawIXuBBoEPd3jig@googlegroups.com Wed May 04 07:18:21 2011 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QHcu5-0007ml-Ag; Wed, 04 May 2011 07:18:21 -0700 Received: by wya21 with SMTP id 21sf1897488wya.16 for ; Wed, 04 May 2011 07:18:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=YOLerfwtxLzyawYp8XfXKHtMBOUbdhR0M7f5ypzsggI=; b=I9/4NPSVKAzI3o9j/jbdK6J4VkdOHAyrg5wXsqDkc11aKhSN3LXnCL6rYLNqzI64Vx 9sNNUvEpFOlQD9LKeMxdWC2TNTxuMO0WY9Ox5M/PHoLTVTFMzCQot8peXF/ZSRvJSUk3 mp9n1gQ30ESkflm0LNFV7DWrxM3MSpLf+LF2k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=efiUYv3w1wXEenKcMC+PldK9Qxk9sCJBrxBdlOJqbgxlq4Uo816I41jt7uIUS4AhXN VAJBtOyWMQNEQV51503XLuNN7z3HIaFymr0hpDlIs0A4WSgYSt0+QulLoWBj0A4Zn7Mk DOa/ix5Bx2b0W4sVo6joF18ud7TXv95/szj6s= Received: by 10.216.78.133 with SMTP id g5mr1521165wee.19.1304518682801; Wed, 04 May 2011 07:18:02 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.3.104 with SMTP id 80ls8006eeg.7.gmail; Wed, 04 May 2011 07:18:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.146.202 with SMTP id r50mr160257eej.0.1304518681461; Wed, 04 May 2011 07:18:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.146.202 with SMTP id r50mr160256eej.0.1304518681428; Wed, 04 May 2011 07:18:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ew0-f44.google.com (mail-ew0-f44.google.com [209.85.215.44]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a55si419951eek.1.2011.05.04.07.18.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 04 May 2011 07:18:01 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.44; Received: by ewy19 with SMTP id 19so376418ewy.3 for ; Wed, 04 May 2011 07:18:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.126.73 with SMTP id a49mr555657eei.178.1304518681155; Wed, 04 May 2011 07:18:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.14.126.147 with HTTP; Wed, 4 May 2011 07:17:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <720969.7604.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <201105021943.53482.jezuch@interia.pl> <737349.12591.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <770130C4-1AF0-4060-AC2A-F209952E0AA9@yahoo.com> <20110504130615.GA21885@alice.local> <20110504133954.GB21885@alice.local> <720969.7604.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Luke Bergen Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 10:17:41 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] xorlo and default quantifiers To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.44 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e0cb4e6ffac397da7204a273ecff --e0cb4e6ffac397da7204a273ecff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm clear on {lo} but now I'm unclear on the meaning of "phallomachy" so we'll call this message a wash. On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 10:13 AM, John E Clifford wrot= e: > May we infer from the fact that this thread has turned into a phallomachy > about Lojban skills that everyone is clear that {lo} descriptions do not > have implicit external quantifiers and that {no} wouldn't be an appropria= te > one even it they did? > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Luke Bergen > *To:* lojban@googlegroups.com > *Sent:* Wed, May 4, 2011 8:43:56 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [lojban] xorlo and default quantifiers > > .u'i mi ba nelci lo nu kelci .i pe'u ko cfagau > > On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 9:39 AM, .alyn.post. < > alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote: > >> dai zo'o ma'a kakne lo nu finti lo pluja lojbo bende .ijonai kelci >> lu ko jimpe ba'e ti li'u noi zvati la .xedbig. >> >> .i mu'o mi'e .alyn. >> >> On Wed, May 04, 2011 at 09:17:49AM -0400, Luke Bergen wrote: >> > .u'i va'o lo nu lo sidbo cu vajni mi kei mi sampu cusku mu'i lo nu = mi >> na >> > djica lo nu toljimpe cu'u mi .ija'ebo mi so'aroi sampu cusku .ija'e= bo >> mi >> > la'a masno cirko lo ka kakne lo nu pluja cusku .u'i .uinai >> > >> > On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 9:06 AM, .alyn.post. >> > <[1]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote: >> > >> > ni'o .ue.ui mi capu jimpe di'u pe la xorxes .e la cribe .i mi pu >> > pilno lo jbovlaste lo nu sisku lo se valsi po'o so'u valsi .i zo'= o >> > do simlu lo ka cusku lo sampu lojbo >> > >> > .i mu'o mi'e .alyn. >> > On Tue, May 03, 2011 at 08:06:50PM -0400, Luke Bergen wrote: >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD mi na djica lo nu cusku lo du'u srera lo nu= cilre ca lo nu >> tadni >> > .i mi >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD ji'a bangu pilno ca lo nu mi cilre .iji'abo= mi ba'e caca'a >> cilre >> > .u'i >> > > >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 2011/5/3 Jorge Llamb=EF=BF=BDas <[1][2]jjll= ambias@gmail.com> >> > > >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 2011/5/3 Luke Bergen <[2][3]lukea= bergen@gmail.com>: >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD > .u'i do tcetce cizra lo jbopre = .i pe'i so'e lo nintadni >> cu >> > cusku lo >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD glibau >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD > befi lu mi nintadni .iku'i mi j= invi lo du'u mi cilre tai >> traji >> > sutra >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD va'o lo >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD > nu mi pilno lo jbobau ca lo nu = mi cilre li'u >> > > >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD pe'i lo nu pilno ca lo nu cilre c= u xagrai ja selte'i >> ji'asai lo >> > ka >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD cilre lo bangu kei lo tadji >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD mu'o mi'e xorxes >> > > >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD -- >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD You received this message because= you are subscribed to the >> > Google >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD Groups "lojban" group. >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD To post to this group, send email= to >> > [3][4]lojban@googlegroups.com. >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD To unsubscribe from this group, s= end email to >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD [4][5]lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD For more options, visit this grou= p at >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD [5][6]http://groups.google.com/gr= oup/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > > >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD -- >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD You received this message because you are s= ubscribed to the >> Google >> > Groups >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD "lojban" group. >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD To post to this group, send email to [7] >> lojban@googlegroups.com. >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD To unsubscribe from this group, send email = to >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD [8]lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD For more options, visit this group at >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD [9]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl= =3Den. >> > > >> > > References >> > > >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD Visible links >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 1. mailto:[10]jjllambias@gmail.com >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 2. mailto:[11]lukeabergen@gmail.com >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 3. mailto:[12]lojban@googlegroups.com >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 4. mailto:[13]lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com >> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 5. [14]http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den >> > >> > -- >> > .i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e >> > Groups "lojban" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to [15]lojban@googlegroups.com. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > [16]lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > [17]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> > "lojban" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > >> > References >> > >> > Visible links >> > 1. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org >> > 2. mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com >> > 3. mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com >> > 4. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com >> > 5. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> > 6. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den >> > 7. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com >> > 8. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> > 9. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den >> > 10. mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com >> > 11. mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com >> > 12. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com >> > 13. mailto:lojban%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> > 14. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den >> > 15. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com >> > 16. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> > 17. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den >> >> -- >> .i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --e0cb4e6ffac397da7204a273ecff Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm clear on {lo} but now I'm unclear on the meaning of "phall= omachy" so we'll call this message a wash.

On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 10:13 AM, John E Clifford <kali9putra= @yahoo.com> wrote:
May we infer from the fact tha= t this thread has turned into a phallomachy about Lojban skills that everyo= ne is clear that {lo} descriptions do not have implicit external quantifier= s and that {no} wouldn't be an appropriate one even it they did?

= From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 8:43:56 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] xo= rlo and default quantifiers

.u'i mi ba nelci lo nu kelci .i pe'u ko cfagau

On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 9:39 AM, .alyn.post. <alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
dai zo'o ma'a kakne lo nu finti lo p= luja lojbo bende .ijonai kelci
lu ko jimpe ba'e ti li'u noi zvati la .xedbig.

.i mu'o mi'e .alyn.

On Wed, May 04, 2011 at 09:17:49AM -0400, Luke Bergen wrote:
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0.u'i va'o lo nu lo sidbo cu vajni mi kei mi sampu= cusku mu'i lo nu mi na
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0djica lo nu toljimpe cu'u mi .ija'ebo mi so'a= roi sampu cusku .ija'ebo mi
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0la'a masno cirko lo ka kakne lo nu pluja cusku .u'= ;i .uinai
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 9:06 AM, .alyn.post.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0<[1]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.or= g> wrote:
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ni'o .ue.ui mi capu jimpe di'u pe la xorxe= s .e la cribe .i mi pu
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0pilno lo jbovlaste lo nu sisku lo se valsi po'= o so'u valsi .i zo'o
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0do simlu lo ka cusku lo sampu lojbo
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0.i mu'o mi'e .alyn.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Tue, May 03, 2011 at 08:06:50PM -0400, Luke Ber= gen wrote:
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD mi na djica lo nu cusku l= o du'u srera lo nu cilre ca lo nu tadni
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0.i mi
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD ji'a bangu pilno ca l= o nu mi cilre .iji'abo mi ba'e caca'a cilre
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0.u'i
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 2011/5/3 Jorge Llam= b=EF=BF=BDas <[1][2]jjllambias@gmail.com>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 2011/5/3 Luke B= ergen <[2][3]lukeabergen@gmail.com>:
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD > .u= 9;i do tcetce cizra lo jbopre .i pe'i so'e lo nintadni cu
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0cusku lo
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD glibau
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD > befi lu mi= nintadni .iku'i mi jinvi lo du'u mi cilre tai traji
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0sutra
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD va'o lo
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD > nu mi piln= o lo jbobau ca lo nu mi cilre li'u
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD pe'i lo nu = pilno ca lo nu cilre cu xagrai ja selte'i ji'asai lo
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ka
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD cilre lo bangu = kei lo tadji
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD mu'o mi'= ;e xorxes
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD --
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD You received th= is message because you are subscribed to the
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Google
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD Groups "lo= jban" group.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD To post to this= group, send email to
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[3][4]lojban@googlegroups.com.
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> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD [4][5]lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD --
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD You received this message= because you are subscribed to the Google
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Groups
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD "lojban" group.=
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD To post to this gro= up, send email to [7]lojban@googlegroups.com.
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> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> References
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD Visible links
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 1. mailto:[10]jjllambias@= gmail.com
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 2. mailto:[11]lukeaberge= n@gmail.com
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 3. mailto:[12]lojban@g= ooglegroups.com
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 4. mailto:[13]lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 5. [14]= http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0.i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0You received this message because you are subscrib= ed to the Google
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Groups "lojban" group.
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> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[17]http://groups.google.c= om/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0--
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0You received this message because you are subscribed to t= he Google Groups
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> =C2=A0 =C2=A0lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.=
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0For more options, visit this group at
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?h= l=3Den.
>
> References
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0Visible links
> =C2=A0 =C2=A01. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org<= /a>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A06. http://groups.google.com/group= /lojban?hl=3Den
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> =C2=A0 =C2=A09. http://groups.google.com/group= /lojban?hl=3Den
> =C2=A0 10. mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com
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> =C2=A0 13. mailto:lojban%252Bunsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com
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> =C2=A0 17. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl= =3Den

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