From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBDS9JDuBBoEm-eXcQ@googlegroups.com Fri May 06 11:13:54 2011 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QIPXA-0004Gl-GI; Fri, 06 May 2011 11:13:54 -0700 Received: by wwb13 with SMTP id 13sf5581271wwb.16 for ; Fri, 06 May 2011 11:13:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=M/1kFLYxuh1iKh88QCex9WLKyMTtpsOma4PolYMIra4=; b=y4oSBzw4r63W75ubBKzIoVIapqyRmlzhA3wjKQoZ7R68rvvCdh8QKEnbRPHaglvPeO gqdfu1b5w/+rQZNayUGO56zdhmkSQ8QfIDzmd+zAZjMGKPFXsTTRsgV9uOjA43lCdC2V papzL3Sg1IvG57Rrq0ikn5qa0E6TZmOXOXI0k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=1I6hrocbWSTZeZqJTIbI4AS1ia4cLfOOEC+VTDE8IP/tXkOux1zNme+SD3ybIY2wOV qRO3AMHL4ukT7vYatvo96pa4Ff6qb84+0+6sMC6nQJCC40D/uDH+TEM5bq8DMRx30mqn z3b1pXLIHgQVIgP75rDF9tsSm6Y4udAfEV/zA= Received: by 10.216.145.146 with SMTP id p18mr2514885wej.9.1304705618054; Fri, 06 May 2011 11:13:38 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.14.3.104 with SMTP id 80ls248963eeg.7.gmail; Fri, 06 May 2011 11:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.32.68 with SMTP id n44mr660091eea.7.1304705616114; Fri, 06 May 2011 11:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.32.68 with SMTP id n44mr660090eea.7.1304705616079; Fri, 06 May 2011 11:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ew0-f45.google.com (mail-ew0-f45.google.com [209.85.215.45]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t50si688604eeb.3.2011.05.06.11.13.36 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 06 May 2011 11:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.45 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.45; Received: by ewy24 with SMTP id 24so1580078ewy.18 for ; Fri, 06 May 2011 11:13:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.126.73 with SMTP id a49mr2059184eei.178.1304705615664; Fri, 06 May 2011 11:13:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.14.126.147 with HTTP; Fri, 6 May 2011 11:13:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201105021943.53482.jezuch@interia.pl> <737349.12591.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <770130C4-1AF0-4060-AC2A-F209952E0AA9@yahoo.com> <20110504130615.GA21885@alice.local> <20110504133954.GB21885@alice.local> <720969.7604.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Luke Bergen Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 14:13:15 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] xorlo and default quantifiers To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.45 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e0cb4e6ffac3c2173b04a29f726b --e0cb4e6ffac3c2173b04a29f726b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable .u'i pe'i lo nu ko'a jbocre cu se cupra lo nu ko'a tcidu lo srera valsi gi'= e za'e dizmenli basygau lo drani lo simsa be ri srera valsi .i va'o lo nu go'= i kei mi na ca jbocre .u'i On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 10:52 AM, Luke Bergen wrote= : > >> .u'i xu do djisku zo zmadu .i pe'i bebna fa lo sidbo pe lo du'u tu'a la >> .lojban. zbasu tu'a la .lojban. >> >> > > go'e .i mi pu jinvi lo du'u mi pu dragau lo selsku pu lo nu mi benji ri .= i > li'a mi srera lo du'u go'i > > --gejyspa > > >> .ita'onai mi tugni .i mi mutce go'i .i ja'ebo mi stidi lo nu roma'a zmad= u >> pilno la .xedbib. .a lo drata jbovelsku >> >> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Michael Turniansky < >> mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Sorry. That wasn't my intent. I just get a large case of MEGOcity >>> whenever the talk turns to obscure linguistic points. I have the same >>> attitude towards lojban that Rabbi Hillel (ca 2000 years ago) had towar= ds >>> Jewish Law (halachah). To find out what the actual practice of the law= is, >>> turn to see what the Jewish people are doing (ex. Babylonion Talmu Pesa= chim >>> 66a). To find out what the definition of lojbanic grammar/words are, s= ee >>> how it's actually being used. And one can't do that if it's not actual= ly >>> being used. I.e., less talk /about/ lojban , more talk /in/ lojban. (p= e'i >>> lo nu tavla fi la lojban kei lo nu tavla ba'e fo la lojban kei lo ka v= ajni >>> cu na zbasu). I recognize that not everyone treats lojban as a living >>> language, however. >>> --gejyspa >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 10:13 AM, John E Clifford = wrote: >>> >>>> May we infer from the fact that this thread has turned into a >>>> phallomachy about Lojban skills that everyone is clear that {lo} >>>> descriptions do not have implicit external quantifiers and that {no} >>>> wouldn't be an appropriate one even it they did? >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* Luke Bergen >>>> *To:* lojban@googlegroups.com >>>> *Sent:* Wed, May 4, 2011 8:43:56 AM >>>> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [lojban] xorlo and default quantifiers >>>> >>>> .u'i mi ba nelci lo nu kelci .i pe'u ko cfagau >>>> >>>> On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 9:39 AM, .alyn.post. < >>>> alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> dai zo'o ma'a kakne lo nu finti lo pluja lojbo bende .ijonai kelci >>>>> lu ko jimpe ba'e ti li'u noi zvati la .xedbig. >>>>> >>>>> .i mu'o mi'e .alyn. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, May 04, 2011 at 09:17:49AM -0400, Luke Bergen wrote: >>>>> > .u'i va'o lo nu lo sidbo cu vajni mi kei mi sampu cusku mu'i lo = nu >>>>> mi na >>>>> > djica lo nu toljimpe cu'u mi .ija'ebo mi so'aroi sampu cusku >>>>> .ija'ebo mi >>>>> > la'a masno cirko lo ka kakne lo nu pluja cusku .u'i .uinai >>>>> > >>>>> > On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 9:06 AM, .alyn.post. >>>>> > <[1]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > ni'o .ue.ui mi capu jimpe di'u pe la xorxes .e la cribe .i mi = pu >>>>> > pilno lo jbovlaste lo nu sisku lo se valsi po'o so'u valsi .i >>>>> zo'o >>>>> > do simlu lo ka cusku lo sampu lojbo >>>>> > >>>>> > .i mu'o mi'e .alyn. >>>>> > On Tue, May 03, 2011 at 08:06:50PM -0400, Luke Bergen wrote: >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD mi na djica lo nu cusku lo du'u srera lo= nu cilre ca lo nu >>>>> tadni >>>>> > .i mi >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD ji'a bangu pilno ca lo nu mi cilre .iji'= abo mi ba'e caca'a >>>>> cilre >>>>> > .u'i >>>>> > > >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 2011/5/3 Jorge Llamb=EF=BF=BDas <[1][2]j= jllambias@gmail.com> >>>>> > > >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 2011/5/3 Luke Bergen <[2][3]lu= keabergen@gmail.com>: >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD > .u'i do tcetce cizra lo jbop= re .i pe'i so'e lo >>>>> nintadni cu >>>>> > cusku lo >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD glibau >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD > befi lu mi nintadni .iku'i m= i jinvi lo du'u mi cilre >>>>> tai traji >>>>> > sutra >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD va'o lo >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD > nu mi pilno lo jbobau ca lo = nu mi cilre li'u >>>>> > > >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD pe'i lo nu pilno ca lo nu cilr= e cu xagrai ja selte'i >>>>> ji'asai lo >>>>> > ka >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD cilre lo bangu kei lo tadji >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD mu'o mi'e xorxes >>>>> > > >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD -- >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD You received this message beca= use you are subscribed to >>>>> the >>>>> > Google >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD Groups "lojban" group. >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD To post to this group, send em= ail to >>>>> > [3][4]lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD To unsubscribe from this group= , send email to >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD [4][5]lojban+unsubscribe@googl= egroups.com. >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD For more options, visit this g= roup at >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD [5][6]http://groups.google.com= /group/lojban?hl=3Den. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD -- >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD You received this message because you ar= e subscribed to >>>>> the Google >>>>> > Groups >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD "lojban" group. >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD To post to this group, send email to [7] >>>>> lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD To unsubscribe from this group, send ema= il to >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD [8]lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD For more options, visit this group at >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD [9]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > References >>>>> > > >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD Visible links >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 1. mailto:[10]jjllambias@gmail.com >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 2. mailto:[11]lukeabergen@gmail.com >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 3. mailto:[12]lojban@googlegroups.com >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 4. mailto:[13]lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googl= egroups.com >>>>> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 5. [14]http://groups.google.com/group/lo= jban?hl=3Den >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > .i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du >>>>> > -- >>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>> Google >>>>> > Groups "lojban" group. >>>>> > To post to this group, send email to [15] >>>>> lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> > [16]lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> > For more options, visit this group at >>>>> > [17]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Goog= le >>>>> Groups >>>>> > "lojban" group. >>>>> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> > For more options, visit this group at >>>>> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >>>>> > >>>>> > References >>>>> > >>>>> > Visible links >>>>> > 1. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org >>>>> > 2. mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com >>>>> > 3. mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com >>>>> > 4. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com >>>>> > 5. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com >>>>> > 6. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den >>>>> > 7. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com >>>>> > 8. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com >>>>> > 9. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den >>>>> > 10. mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com >>>>> > 11. mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com >>>>> > 12. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com >>>>> > 13. mailto:lojban%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com >>>>> > 14. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den >>>>> > 15. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com >>>>> > 16. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com >>>>> > 17. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> .i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --e0cb4e6ffac3c2173b04a29f726b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable .u'i pe'i lo nu ko'a jbocre cu se cupra lo nu ko'a tcidu lo= srera valsi gi'e za'e dizmenli basygau lo drani lo simsa be ri sre= ra valsi .i va'o lo nu go'i kei mi na ca jbocre .u'i

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Michael Turnian= sky <mturnian= sky@gmail.com> wrote:


On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 10:52 A= M, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
.u'i xu do djisku zo zmadu .i pe&= #39;i bebna fa lo sidbo pe lo du'u tu'a la .lojban. zbasu tu'a = la .lojban.=20

=C2=A0
=C2=A0
go'e .i mi pu=C2=A0jinvi lo du'u mi pu dragau lo selsku= =C2=A0pu=C2=A0lo nu mi benji ri .i li'a mi srera lo du'u go'i
=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 --gejyspa
=C2=A0
.ita'onai mi tugni .i mi mutce go'i .i ja'ebo mi stidi lo = nu roma'a zmadu pilno la .xedbib. .a lo drata jbovelsku

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Michael Turniansky = <mturniansky@= gmail.com> wrote:
=C2=A0 Sorry.=C2=A0 That wasn't my intent.=C2=A0 I just get a larg= e case of MEGOcity whenever the talk turns to obscure linguistic points.=C2= =A0 I have the same attitude towards lojban that Rabbi Hillel (ca 2000 year= s ago) had towards Jewish Law (halachah).=C2=A0 To find out what the actual= practice of the law is, turn to see what the Jewish people are doing (ex. = Babylonion Talmu Pesachim 66a).=C2=A0 To find out what the definition of lo= jbanic grammar/words are, see how it's actually being used.=C2=A0 And o= ne can't do that if it's not actually being used.=C2=A0 I.e., less = talk=C2=A0/about/ lojban , more talk /in/ lojban. (pe'i lo=C2=A0nu tavl= a fi=C2=A0la lojban kei lo nu tavla ba'e fo =C2=A0la lojban kei lo ka v= ajni cu na zbasu). I recognize that not everyone treats lojban as a living = language, however.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 --gejyspa
=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 10:13 AM, John E Clifford= <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
May we infer from the fact that this thread has turned into a phalloma= chy about Lojban skills that everyone is clear that {lo} descriptions do no= t have implicit external quantifiers and that {no} wouldn't be an appro= priate one even it they did?

From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com<= /a>>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=
Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 8:43:= 56 AM=20

Subject: Re: [lojba= n] xorlo and default quantifiers

.u'i mi ba nelci lo nu kelci .i pe'u ko cfagau

On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 9:39 AM, .alyn.post. <alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> w= rote:
dai zo'o ma'a kakne lo nu fin= ti lo pluja lojbo bende .ijonai kelci
lu ko jimpe ba'e ti li'u n= oi zvati la .xedbig.

.i mu'o mi'e .alyn.

On Wed, May 04, 2011 at 09:17:49AM -0400, Luke Bergen wrote:
> = =C2=A0 =C2=A0.u'i va'o lo nu lo sidbo cu vajni mi kei mi sampu cusk= u mu'i lo nu mi na
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0djica lo nu toljimpe cu'u m= i .ija'ebo mi so'aroi sampu cusku .ija'ebo mi
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0la'a masno cirko lo ka kakne lo nu pluja cusku .u'= ;i .uinai
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 9:06 AM, .aly= n.post.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0<[1]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org&= gt; wrote:
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ni'o .ue.ui mi capu jimp= e di'u pe la xorxes .e la cribe .i mi pu
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0pilno lo jbovlaste lo nu sisku lo se valsi po'= o so'u valsi .i zo'o
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0do simlu lo ka cus= ku lo sampu lojbo
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0.i mu'o mi'e = .alyn.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Tue, May 03, 2011 at 08:06:50PM -0400= , Luke Bergen wrote:
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD mi na djica lo nu cusku l= o du'u srera lo nu cilre ca lo nu tadni
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0.i = mi
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD ji'a bangu piln= o ca lo nu mi cilre .iji'abo mi ba'e caca'a cilre
> =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0.u'i
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF= =BD =EF=BF=BD 2011/5/3 Jorge Llamb=EF=BF=BDas <[1][2]jjllambias@gmail.co= m>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>= =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD 2011/5/3 Luke Bergen <[2][3]lukeabergen@= gmail.com>:
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD > .u= 9;i do tcetce cizra lo jbopre .i pe'i so'e lo nintadni cu
> = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0cusku lo
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF= =BF=BD =EF=BF=BD glibau
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF= =BD =EF=BF=BD > befi lu mi nintadni .iku'i mi jinvi lo du'u mi c= ilre tai traji
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0sutra
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD = =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD va'o lo
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD = =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD > nu mi pilno lo jbobau ca lo nu mi cilre li'u> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD = =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD pe'i lo nu pilno ca lo nu cilre cu xagrai ja selte&= #39;i ji'asai lo
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ka
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> =EF=BF=BD =EF= =BF=BD =EF=BF=BD cilre lo bangu kei lo tadji
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