From lojban+bncCNf8pM-bDBCcmJvuBBoEsVBZYA@googlegroups.com Sun May 08 10:00:30 2011 Received: from mail-vx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QJ7LC-0006q5-1b; Sun, 08 May 2011 10:00:29 -0700 Received: by vxk20 with SMTP id 20sf3944352vxk.16 for ; Sun, 08 May 2011 10:00:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=pjRCEomg6SRDvnlnbIg1JEWcRpBTK7FS+MRjidaXoMo=; b=rymtl8Xtq6lAforAWuq34LyBrHTTssz5WJdrOoOJm6LdV/lCdcQ9CzvnFzb8x9BkgZ gZRRb+y7bAxRmLQ5szXEqZNRwvQe7KbgZyVSjNvk4AWZi9jT05k0qkZpuiXGb+KETa2w POVhIn8vpMwcreemHTXVD8fcU+rwFo06lmdig= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; b=dThaxqbV5/ypWr3zgNGGm33207t3EilW3W3AExs6GWu9mwW4kKW86uKgP78f3GNbEL P14hW6Wt/6V2LUcMVE/JDPln3WzoCmh/WCtAR/j0ORuuSvUA1e4wxgtS/TQdr6eKolfR eAmLMkxUOaqkWq/ntuNWPMBkP0lRq79Kq1Shc= Received: by 10.220.195.66 with SMTP id eb2mr467484vcb.4.1304874012147; Sun, 08 May 2011 10:00:12 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.52.0.75 with SMTP id 11ls1343520vdc.2.gmail; Sun, 08 May 2011 10:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.74.231 with SMTP id x7mr1020433vdv.16.1304874011523; Sun, 08 May 2011 10:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.74.231 with SMTP id x7mr1020432vdv.16.1304874011515; Sun, 08 May 2011 10:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f180.google.com (mail-qy0-f180.google.com [209.85.216.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w16si348899vck.8.2011.05.08.10.00.11 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 08 May 2011 10:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.180; Received: by qyk10 with SMTP id 10so4089705qyk.11 for ; Sun, 08 May 2011 10:00:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.64.84 with SMTP id d20mr4274948qci.206.1304874011222; Sun, 08 May 2011 10:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.95.75 with HTTP; Sun, 8 May 2011 10:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 18:00:11 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] "to think that ..." From: tijlan To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: paskios@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=paskios@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I was reading an article on finitary relation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finitary_relation which gives this sentence "X thinks that Y likes Z" as an example of ternary (three-argument) relation. That isn't how "to think that ..." is commonly represented with a Lojban selbri: "X jinvi lo du'u Y nelci Z" In this bridi, X relates only indirectly to both Y and Z as parts of another single abstract argument ("lo du'u ..."). Excluding the implicit x3 and x4 of "jinvi", this expression is binary, not ternary. I wonder if one of the approaches is logically more preferrable than the other in making the same statement. Or do they make logically different statements? mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.