From lojban+bncCIfp7ILVEBCwgPHvBBoE_KYwYQ@googlegroups.com Fri Jun 17 23:05:50 2011 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QXofC-0000MT-Ft; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 23:05:50 -0700 Received: by pvc22 with SMTP id 22sf39462pvc.16 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 23:05:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=QuEdI7mqUJRGTBSfYwlmtWVjswICPTzZ3WLE/SSJfNc=; b=pdDiH2gNFXGHqrnSAhagjLmicD75ndRstNG8MJ9rF/Cm8Wt3c9h9mTR6lOd+KaGH+a xDPAr6l5/FHXkTTnmvkXjDcYP/fgJ5v5n/jVb9k/n+hx9bCa4ktEwNgK4mcu/VJDXtT/ BcRQYpIPIUKUKO/2F2t9KUiy+hG9c/FvUtkzE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from :to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; b=3xAu/N83z5iuwy0w45QiDF7YY98XU0VwKh6epOxq9F7ybiHgaAwQaQ/76I7VC9Id4p 0wLRmSijKGSTCIWJqWo9OSUwRFAwymvzlfSwFcGDYaJeRUBdHrJKsM2oHQkC/gLqZNjk kIXaLcxwvJgnNRDMGxdGmDn85RnbE9D1fGrN4= Received: by 10.68.54.134 with SMTP id j6mr253189pbp.64.1308377136497; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 23:05:36 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.15.3 with SMTP id t3ls1039901pbc.1.gmail; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 23:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.7.134 with SMTP id j6mr570030pba.4.1308377135630; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 23:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.7.134 with SMTP id j6mr570029pba.4.1308377135620; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 23:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pv0-f182.google.com (mail-pv0-f182.google.com [74.125.83.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c10si7328076pbi.2.2011.06.17.23.05.34 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 17 Jun 2011 23:05:34 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of felipeg.assis@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.182; Received: by mail-pv0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 11so426120pvg.27 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 23:05:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.9.8 with SMTP id v8mr1410912pba.279.1308377134487; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 23:05:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.48.102 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 23:05:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 03:05:34 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] non-ka properties From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Felipe_Gon=E7alves_Assis?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: felipeg.assis@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of felipeg.assis@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=felipeg.assis@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 coi The following might be described in English as properties: * one's name * one's position * one's colour * one's temperature * one's mother They are, of course, of a rather different kind than what is referred to by ka-abstractions, which would be, for example, "the property of having a name" or "the property of being named Capulet". These non-ka properties might not be, e.g., neither of * se ckaji * se simlu * se sisku which are ka-specific. However, I believe that, depending on their specific nature, they might be either of * te zmadu * te jibni * te simsa * se mutce * se traji I then ask how these could be expressed in lojban, particularly as arguments of the aforementioned se sumti. ka-properties have been described as lambda expressions. The return values of these expressions are truth values. They might be in a multivalued scale when used in zmadu, jibni, etc, but they are still basically truth values. These non-ka properties are then just lambda expressions which return different kinds of values. It appears only logical that {ce'u} should be used. The best I have come up with are constructions such as {ko'a jibni ko'e lo se stuzi be ce'u}. Nevertheless, this directly contradicts the gimste, which specifically asks for a {ka} or {ni}. The CLL does not mention any possible use of {ce'u} outside an abstraction either. What am I missing? How are these ideas expressed in the current corpus? mu'o mi'e .asiz. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.