From lojban+bncCML0xpmUARDCjvPvBBoEAX7gzg@googlegroups.com Sat Jun 18 08:42:09 2011 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QXxeu-00073N-Rb; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 08:42:08 -0700 Received: by pvc22 with SMTP id 22sf174584pvc.16 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 08:41:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=gDoiagXZRFsJRZfdA2RfNi1fJtv3mHZgOQxM9EH5bOs=; b=TiUe3/bThSYkk612l3IVQNHn0eUbUMQTpuV9eM5j00qeaXWKNe2edwr79jD8t7OMTI xlDZg6ly37ST4xOOqmz34/gs6CN8o6Hc6qzFJUynC8q+yZqId0tBAptfv2vgBK8jgRsK W/KEveOYQ5k3yv22AF+Fj7jazoIyXjSBY164o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=WCEO3RrxCaykwW6C6VtTGqWCfYuDbRj7ll4HCLP9L9j9h4MbJQzfNW2Ha+JS5shKhT kWp2bfD9JB8p8fCsRyavuoBGuJ/zHPbiMSiXzhHH2Ds7i0/KGFMs41xD7y/dx43K/XiT nOaujcOsNK6WBRTzwOtbEvKiGsNYyGb8Dh8tI= Received: by 10.142.157.6 with SMTP id f6mr40192wfe.37.1308411714173; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 08:41:54 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.40.9 with SMTP id t9ls692606pbk.2.gmail; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 08:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.36.66 with SMTP id o2mr620976pbj.1.1308411713472; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 08:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.36.66 with SMTP id o2mr620975pbj.1.1308411713455; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 08:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pz0-f45.google.com (mail-pz0-f45.google.com [209.85.210.45]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f8si8121377pbc.0.2011.06.18.08.41.53 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 18 Jun 2011 08:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.45 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.45; Received: by pzk30 with SMTP id 30so2932431pzk.32 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 08:41:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.14.102 with SMTP id o6mr1496582pbc.124.1308411713271; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 08:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.55.104 with HTTP; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 08:41:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 11:41:53 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] non-ka properties From: Ian Johnson To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.45 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec520ea9d63b6ab04a5fe5753 --bcaec520ea9d63b6ab04a5fe5753 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a very neat trick; is it documented anywhere? It is not in 11.4. mu'o mi'e latros 2011/6/18 Jorge Llamb=EDas > 2011/6/18 Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis : > > > > These non-ka properties are then just lambda expressions > > which return different kinds of values. It appears only logical > > that {ce'u} should be used. > > "ce'u" is not used for the return value, it is used to mark the slot > of the property holder. The slot for the return value is marked with > "ma kau". > > > The best I have come up with are > > constructions such as > > {ko'a jibni ko'e lo se stuzi be ce'u}. > > > > Nevertheless, this directly contradicts the gimste, which > > specifically asks for a {ka} or {ni}. The CLL does not > > mention any possible use of {ce'u} outside an abstraction > > either. > > > > What am I missing? > > How are these ideas expressed in the current corpus? > > ko'a jibni ko'e lo ka makau stuzi ce'u > ko'a is close to ko'e in location ("in what their locations are"). > > ko'a dunli ko'e lo ka makau cmene ce'u > ko'a is equal to ko'e in name ("in what their names are"). > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --bcaec520ea9d63b6ab04a5fe5753 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a very neat trick; is it documented anywhere? It is not in 11.4.
mu'o mi'e latros

2011/6/18 J= orge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
2011/6/18 Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>:
>
> These non-ka properties are then just lambda expressions
> which return different kinds of values. It appears only logical
> that {ce'u} should be used.

"ce'u" is not used for the return value, it is used to = mark the slot
of the property holder. The slot for the return value is marked with
"ma kau".

> The best I have come up with are
> constructions such as
> =A0 =A0{ko'a jibni ko'e lo se stuzi be ce'u}.
>
> Nevertheless, this directly contradicts the gimste, which
> specifically asks for a {ka} or {ni}. The CLL does not
> mention any possible use of {ce'u} outside an abstraction
> either.
>
> What am I missing?
> How are these ideas expressed in the current corpus?

ko'a jibni ko'e lo ka makau stuzi ce'u
ko'a is close to ko'e in location ("in what their locations ar= e").

ko'a dunli ko'e lo ka makau cmene ce'u
ko'a is equal to ko'e in name ("in what their names are")= .

mu'o mi'e xorxes

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--bcaec520ea9d63b6ab04a5fe5753--