From lojban+bncCIfp7ILVEBClt_PvBBoE3PbPTA@googlegroups.com Sat Jun 18 10:09:05 2011 Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QXz14-0005jO-Kn; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:09:05 -0700 Received: by pzk4 with SMTP id 4sf2472864pzk.16 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:08:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wTmrPed057Tyi8aEHMHQeVAPTz5iC3fzjgJJWVHbg/s=; b=OVlXjpIWDyQ1/DMpH/5dEz34SvSTLZWoUqHyYVG+cxTCvwxYu5IhxLtHDjtDbTN3zq aIZb4FrbtsAhF0iRIYzZySeSxaHCDhWW/xlEi911GL4EVt8+TmVXENdZtHs9PKOyIm5a mTvlZWNduaaMW/goFKwLFSEJv42zrgvB2nwGk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=sTFhmeIZIlf66Q54kC5fvCMNMjoTbf6neqCyJiWuDZAR5+eV4rF+ecdg9luV7mx3HX DkxFKZB0Eo8YTITLAifo8G9+IbNMoqXJZO4+EcgQF+VjHVztSju61mH9Vp1FQBEVPAdW NPqAwIahWBjU4DGOxONvPWhetL8+KrbfLsz+o= Received: by 10.142.199.13 with SMTP id w13mr489331wff.48.1308416933097; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:08:53 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.36.67 with SMTP id o3ls1126199pbj.0.gmail; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.39.227 with SMTP id s3mr622862pbk.8.1308416932257; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.39.227 with SMTP id s3mr622861pbk.8.1308416932221; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pz0-f49.google.com (mail-pz0-f49.google.com [209.85.210.49]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c10si8230427pbn.1.2011.06.18.10.08.52 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of felipeg.assis@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.49 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.49; Received: by pzk28 with SMTP id 28so3121692pzk.8 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:08:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.25.74 with SMTP id a10mr1540576pbg.78.1308416932006; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.48.102 with HTTP; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:08:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <183824.35843.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <183824.35843.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 14:08:51 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] non-ka properties From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Felipe_Gon=E7alves_Assis?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: felipeg.assis@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of felipeg.assis@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=felipeg.assis@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable doi djan On 18 June 2011 13:47, John E Clifford wrote: > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis > To: lojban@googlegroups.com > Sent: Sat, June 18, 2011 1:05:34 AM > Subject: [lojban] non-ka properties > > > These non-ka properties might not be, e.g., neither of > * se ckaji > * se simlu > * se sisku > which are ka-specific. However, I believe that, depending on > their specific nature, they might be either of > > By ""ka specific", I take it you mean "have ka mentioned in the definitio= n". > This is not a terribly reliable guide, in either direction. > No, I actually mean they strictly refer to properties in the ka-sense. The other gismu are also defined with explicit mentions to {ka}, even though they make sense when filled with functions having suitable return values. I was enquiring about how to express these functions in lojban. > * te zmadu > * te jibni > * te simsa > * se mutce > * se traji > > These non-ka properties are then just lambda expressions > which return different kinds of values. It appears only logical > that {ce'u} should be used. The best I have come up with are > constructions such as > =A0 =A0{ko'a jibni ko'e lo se stuzi be ce'u}. > > Assuming that ko'a and ko'e are sentences/propositions this makes a sort = of > sense, their positions on a truth value scale, say. =A0But it is not very= natural > a reading, even if we are talking about fuzzy values. > No, the intended translation is as in xorxes sentence: "They are close in what their locations are", where "they" probably does not refer to sentences. I guess this would be a case for ellipsis. mu'onai mi'e .asiz. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.