From lojban+bncCML0xpmUARDqw_PvBBoELCDE3g@googlegroups.com Sat Jun 18 10:35:50 2011 Received: from mail-pv0-f184.google.com ([74.125.83.184]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QXzQx-0001E4-Vu; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:35:50 -0700 Received: by pvg18 with SMTP id 18sf1691840pvg.1 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:35:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=LVbl9devdz+HtHo9rNy8lYr/UYOAMB515xMIo6M0Ixs=; b=H9nPaqNazjGOLuDTaTu9I1d8zPUqAOuzenMflft/+BL7nFdsF3iIBA+jB/T698EHYS 8H4Iho9Ge1O3dMPdi8KRZAC0qvm/MIMkJuw+gaf7RhM+/GPkA2uCPXwt4CS+C0KXGqz6 xr9CKjh/+4K3LGtB/u0F/7BABBOcD9DIvvAzI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=q1POsM755oW2+6OISkMUAC5twj0voo0Kxb7RDjcSogzcQDtSzIL08H8xaUv1lRouN6 EDwN8GaRNgQ4BcQSX4A+UOzd57F2JMdSTrS0uVWTXlpnah4Nm9XG4ZCx9Z4l1LGB5JyG 5cfy6/ifIjtB6View85fW2EgSgFXbWW7hSJNE= Received: by 10.68.13.2 with SMTP id d2mr292646pbc.61.1308418538407; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:35:38 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.36.67 with SMTP id o3ls1129789pbj.0.gmail; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.3.201 with SMTP id e9mr621532pbe.77.1308418537635; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.3.201 with SMTP id e9mr621531pbe.77.1308418537610; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pv0-f171.google.com (mail-pv0-f171.google.com [74.125.83.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c10si8267300pbi.2.2011.06.18.10.35.37 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.171; Received: by mail-pv0-f171.google.com with SMTP id 4so2438664pva.16 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:35:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.39.40 with SMTP id m8mr1409136pbk.258.1308418537394; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.55.104 with HTTP; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:35:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 13:35:37 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Category theory in lojban, or coining words From: Ian Johnson To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec520e8d523930704a5ffee13 --bcaec520e8d523930704a5ffee13 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Well, I'm exposed to analysis and a fair bit of topology, as well as a little bit of (axiomatic) set theory. So it more depends on what you know about. Knowledge of something like pure math is not a 1D scale. On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote: > Not much. > > I'm a masters student in CS, currently working in a programming languages > theory lab. > I've been exposed to category theory and taken classes on calculus, graph > theory, probability, statistics, and number theory. > > Notably, I'm ignorant (beyond a modicum of over-heard words) of set theory, > group theory (abstract algebra in general), analysis, and topology. > > On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Ian Johnson wrote: > >> What are we comparing to? >> >> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote: >> >>> mu'i lo su'u kucli ku da xu .e ma vu'o poi ke'a se mriste ti curve bo >>> cmaci certu zmadu be mi >>> >>> Out of curiosity, is anyone on this list more experienced in pure math >>> (pardon the malgli) than I am? >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 5:50 AM, Escape Landsome wrote: >>> >>>> coi >>>> >>>> What this suggests me is that some inheritance mechanism is necessary. >>>> >>>> For instance, one can argue that addition in the case of natural >>>> numbers is a particular case of concatenation for sequences of the >>>> same unit "I". >>>> >>>> (i.e.: III & IIII = IIIIIII captures the meaning of 3 + 4 = 7, yet >>>> concatenation is more general than addition, for IIJ & JJII = IIJJJII >>>> has no equivalent in the natural integers set) >>>> >>>> So, if there were a word for "concatenation", say this is the word C, >>>> it should bear some relation with the word for "integer addition", say >>>> it is the word A. >>>> >>>> C ---> A >>>> >>>> For the same reason, "integer addition" should bear a strong >>>> relationship with real addition, or complex addition. >>>> >>>> Natural languages resolve this problem by using the word "sum" for all >>>> additions, and by coining usages of "con-caten-ation", or ' other >>>> types of "sums" ' for the other cases... >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> -- .esk >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Alex R >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "lojban" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > Alex R > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --bcaec520e8d523930704a5ffee13 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, I'm exposed to analysis and a fair bit of topology, as well as a = little bit of (axiomatic) set theory. So it more depends on what you know a= bout. Knowledge of something like pure math is not a 1D scale.

On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Alex Rozenshteyn <rpglover64@gmail.com> w= rote:
Not much.

I'm a masters student in CS, currently working in a pr= ogramming languages theory lab.
I've been exposed to category theory= and taken classes on calculus, graph theory, probability, statistics, and = number theory.

Notably, I'm ignorant (beyond a modicum of over-heard words) of set= theory, group theory (abstract algebra in general), analysis, and topology= .

On Sa= t, Jun 18, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
What are we comparing to?

On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Alex Rozenshteyn &= lt;rpglover64@gma= il.com> wrote:
mu'i lo su'u kucli ku da xu .e ma vu'o poi ke'a se mriste t= i curve bo cmaci certu zmadu be mi

Out of curiosity, is anyone on th= is list more experienced in pure math (pardon the malgli) than I am?


On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 5:50 AM, Escape Land= some <escaaape@gmail.com> wrote:
coi

What this suggests me is that some inheritance mechanism is necessary.

For instance, one can argue that addition in the case of natural
numbers is a particular case of concatenation for sequences of the
same unit "I".

(i.e.: =A0III & IIII =3D IIIIIII captures the meaning of 3 + 4 =3D 7, y= et
concatenation is more general than addition, for IIJ & JJII =3D IIJJJII=
has no equivalent in the natural integers set)

So, if there were a word for "concatenation", say this is the wor= d C,
it should bear some relation with the word for "integer addition"= , say
it is the word A.

C ---> A

For the same reason, "integer addition" should bear a strong
relationship with real addition, or complex addition.

Natural languages resolve this problem by using the word "sum" fo= r all
additions, and by coining usages of "con-caten-ation", or ' o= ther
types of "sums" ' for the other cases...

Regards

-- .esk

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=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R

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=

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=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Al= ex R

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