From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCq7PPvBBoE5fmzXA@googlegroups.com Sat Jun 18 12:02:19 2011 Received: from mail-vx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QY0mb-00017C-IK; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:02:18 -0700 Received: by vxg38 with SMTP id 38sf1445963vxg.16 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:02:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=G/rgjp1YarOZa/GaB5cTZLHFaXhn8GjfSzYrQKHGg14=; b=QSCXalyEvZu3e7nr7+IaH1JhdsaAQ9Bz5nNXh5btjD2hIZ+EcfE+zvUoohlmcX6hij yitF9pR92HDvfgwLNyYJtWjWCOmng6Nn81maWglR+wLYFdYmUNXKFb+P63TDaiKPKZxE 7fNXfzWoWY6qXSexFLkEa9W7FFY38pgOw3WyM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=M2FGx4lZ7PYWeTsrh5oqLbFk5doZOm+qXud5U4zzP4t+CNYz15bdvel8ZKkt1nSkX3 9cLne3rvvNrAawNiPeNRbxI79PymKB+u+i2te7VPJRMliT2VyDza0aVcaNeY6Bj3Y4qT sqIqRFLH6YgOYp4bfEW0XVMW2MKuhck24ERcs= Received: by 10.220.186.140 with SMTP id cs12mr461217vcb.20.1308423722886; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:02:02 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.52.96.197 with SMTP id du5ls1782160vdb.1.gmail; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:02:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.181.33 with SMTP id dt1mr1336362vdc.9.1308423722337; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:02:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.181.33 with SMTP id dt1mr1336361vdc.9.1308423722326; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:02:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vx0-f175.google.com ([209.85.220.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a10si3220529vdt.0.2011.06.18.12.02.02 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:02:02 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.175; Received: by vxa37 with SMTP id 37so1206731vxa.6 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:02:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.181.164 with SMTP id dx4mr1414574vdc.183.1308423722126; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:02:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.181.234 with HTTP; Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:02:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 16:02:02 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] non-ka properties From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2011/6/18 Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis : > > Clarifying: I was not marking the return value with {ce'u}, I understand > it marks the argument. I was expressing the return value as the x1 of > {broda} when saying {lo broda be ce'u}. I think your using "se stuzi" when you meant "stuzi" is what confused me. > =A0{lo se stuzi be ce'u} (non-ka) vs > =A0{lo ka stuzi makau} (ka-kau) You wanted: "lo stuzi be ce'u" vs "lo ka makau stuzi" > 3. When nesting properties, ka-kau requires indexing for > disambiguation, while non-ka works out-of-the-box. Non-ka "ce'u" can also cause ambiguity. In "lo ka broda lo brode be ce'u", is "ce'u" playing its usual role of marking the slot for the ka-property holder, or is it turning "lo brode" into a property? > Also, I would > be very content if any of you could point uses of this in texts. Here are some from Alice: ".i .abu co'a pensi ro lo verba poi ke'a .abu slabu gi'e mintu lo ka ce'u nanca ma kau ku'o te zu'e lo nu jdice lo du'u xu kau cumki fa lo nu da .abu ba'o galfi su'o me vy" "ni'o zanfu'a la .alis. fa lo nu lo cmalu ke makfa botpi ca mulno lo ka ce'u ma kau rinka" ".i pa mai mi do dunli lo ka zvati lo mo kau mlana be lo vorme" ".i la .alis. noi banzu naldjica cu basti la cibmasti cicyractu lo ka ce'u zvati ma kau" ".i sy mintu lo purdykurji lo ka ma kau tarmi ce'u" ".i pe'i lo fatne lo se fatne cu dunli lo ka ma kau prali lo nunpai ce'u" ".i ny ca'o tolylau sezysku =ABlu vajni .i tolvajni .i tolvajni .i vajni li'u=BB tai lo nu cipra lo ka ma kau pe ce'u xagmau kei lo valsi" And from lo cmalu noltru: ".i va'o ro nu ge lo terdi cu dukse lo ka cmalu gi lo tricrbaobao cu dukse lo ka se kancu fi makau cu spoja fa lo terdi gau ty" ".i mi dunli lo solri lo ka jbena ca makau" "lu tu =97sei lo cmalu noltru fi ri cusku=97 cu milxe simsa lo mi pixydu'e lo ka ce'u pensi ta'i makau li'u" "ni'o lo cmalu noltru cu mutce frica lo makcu prenu lo ka makau sidbo lo se junri ce'u" ".i lo tedyskecku =97sei lo tedyskepre cu cusku=97 cu traji lo ka makau vamji ce'u kei fo lo ro cukta" ".i pa'a gi zenba lo ka makau tcika gi mi zenba lo ni gleki" And from lo nu binxo: ".i my te zu'e lo nu cipra lo ka ma kau kukte ce'u kei gy cu bevri lo so'i te cuxna noi preja punji ke'a lo to'e cnino karni" ".i na banzu fa lo temci lo nu gy cipra fi lo re ninmu fe lo ka xu kau zukte fi lo nu xendo" ".i gy djica lo nu di'a binxo lo darno kei tai lo nu da'i lo nu gy cortu cu ba jdika ca lo nu gy cenba lo ka zvati ma kau" mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. 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