From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCGsPnvBBoEl2kCRQ@googlegroups.com Sun Jun 19 13:12:05 2011 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QYOLh-0000cC-25; Sun, 19 Jun 2011 13:12:05 -0700 Received: by fxm14 with SMTP id 14sf121638fxm.16 for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2011 13:11:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=E32N5WXdY40/6UmUE7y1bIzNa1JDApAQCn+s2a8EPAs=; b=Rf7If3Woufo480R4Vv1k3S2wxzXQyEKrxIP4KDmuphbDDwidLGbfCpSCUBIo12gCKi 3/RQUCpCHQQtltuUsMBhNb2fa1b769Wav5+xuwFW9nzQNU6Ef7pOzAvIKB5uEx22aFlW vHsRXdU+RGeqmn3Ot9N2rzywg5URQ2ddoeNRQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=Q6E/7y8r4k8N9vGyQQArrlUnxBXoVGBwC2lOLtFgQN9Ps6lur5meQcxVm0YeM4nBP0 KOF4CyMa3+0/MOGxd70I3nd//O562wvB1st9Z35rbzr4Q6WSUHwuh+cuh89VX/Zkf70P mElLNp8IX1mt4Im2ogXYqXrnpmr2pyHvKBc9A= Received: by 10.223.160.77 with SMTP id m13mr739087fax.35.1308514310156; Sun, 19 Jun 2011 13:11:50 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.166.66 with SMTP id l2ls1733698bky.2.gmail; Sun, 19 Jun 2011 13:11:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.166.193 with SMTP id n1mr377186bky.7.1308514309098; Sun, 19 Jun 2011 13:11:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.166.193 with SMTP id n1mr377185bky.7.1308514309087; Sun, 19 Jun 2011 13:11:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f47.google.com (mail-bw0-f47.google.com [209.85.214.47]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p12si365749bkp.1.2011.06.19.13.11.49 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 19 Jun 2011 13:11:49 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.47; Received: by mail-bw0-f47.google.com with SMTP id 5so1149172bwz.20 for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2011 13:11:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.84.36 with SMTP id h36mr3435913bkl.76.1308514308879; Sun, 19 Jun 2011 13:11:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.71.75 with HTTP; Sun, 19 Jun 2011 13:11:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <940949.55292.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <860642.20311.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <940949.55292.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 17:11:48 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] non-ka properties From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.47 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 4:28 PM, John E Clifford wro= te: > Are you sure? =A0I get confused in infinity (as any right-thinking person= should) > but I have aleph-null types and aleph-null situations giving aleph-null s= quared > potential tokens. =A0aHAH! There must be more than aleph-null situations = because > there are more than aleph-null predicates, each of which can occur alone = in at > least one situation. =A0And we can't reliably reduce these variant proper= ties down > to others, even if every situation under one description is also another > situation under another, Never mind. I don't think the number of situations is at all limited by the number of predications. Situations are the territory, predications are the map. By the very nature of things, most situations won't be fully describable by a predication. It's not that complicated really. For example, for every real number x, there is the property of being that number. There, already, you have a cardinality of properties larger than aleph-null, most of which won't have a ka-expression to express them. The number of expressions is strictly limited by the discrete nature of language (or a language like Lojban at any rate). mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.