From lojban+bncCIfp7ILVEBD3sf7vBBoEVk_yMQ@googlegroups.com Mon Jun 20 12:01:22 2011 Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QYjiq-0005GC-Pd; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:01:22 -0700 Received: by pzk4 with SMTP id 4sf4192348pzk.16 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:01:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=rQUCOFZwbhQEjnqSRUeh0rvfNg1xlvMEtA4V0lX8pX4=; b=cOjfzKKvOpl5FQ4tX30fAV/btCsnz8GUslVsFdDOnzrH0KUiojDkLrEuZ/u/qYNNBn EKlXIPdizYuzSnHzlwyfxZKxQDYOLnv0RAtWT5+soYjFLRFkfFkM2ppUDncH/K7WBOX3 jk2k/Ygsc1xwgkocbsmRE9WTMXaKcYZrHoQsg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=RssBCnctlODmv26HGBLyI9Vdb4RjxBmQJ1apW7mMnkiF/YhCv8zh1v0QxYkn1AqZAH /R8AKajhWD/2olh14fMeR8sdd+OBSgQNtc56ZEabOQNlPsSIhVoOF+Diro4/1dugQQAG cc9Bb77Pq/DEQ+erQ7HVCLgELmxID7Upiki6s= Received: by 10.68.24.103 with SMTP id t7mr926539pbf.48.1308596471158; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:01:11 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.15.3 with SMTP id t3ls1611776pbc.1.gmail; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.64.34 with SMTP id l2mr834426pbs.88.1308596470545; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.64.34 with SMTP id l2mr834425pbs.88.1308596470498; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pz0-f49.google.com (mail-pz0-f49.google.com [209.85.210.49]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f8si12496697pbc.0.2011.06.20.12.01.10 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of felipeg.assis@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.49 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.49; Received: by mail-pz0-f49.google.com with SMTP id 28so5285623pzk.22 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:01:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.9.8 with SMTP id v8mr2448959pba.279.1308596470166; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.48.102 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:01:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 16:01:10 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] non-ka properties From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Felipe_Gon=E7alves_Assis?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: felipeg.assis@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of felipeg.assis@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=felipeg.assis@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 20 June 2011 13:00, Michael Turniansky wrote: > 2011/6/20 Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis : >> On 20 June 2011 10:01, Michael Turniansky wrote: >>> 2011/6/20 Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis : >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ni'o >>>> A second issue, which has been in my mind since I first considered >>>> the kau approach: How does {ka broda} compare to {ka xukau broda}? >>> >>> =A0 =A0"ka xukau broda" Means "the property of whether or notit is >>> broda". =A0It's actually probably identical (or nearly so) to the >>> little-used "jei [broda]". >>> >> >> Wait, in a {jei} there is no {ce'u}. >> Anyway, the question is, isn't {ka ce'u broda}, when applied to a >> specific object, the same thing? From your own interpretation, we have >> =A0"the property of wether or not it is broda" vs >> =A0"the property of being broda" >> >> -- > > =A0Yes, those are different. =A0The first is a binary value, whereas the > second is simply "brodaness". =A0Example "mi se melbi lo mi gerku lo ka > crino" -> " my dog is beautiful =A0because of his greeness" "mi se melbi > lo mi gerku lo ka xukau crino" -> "my dog is beautiful because of the > state of his being-green-or-not". I don't get it. Do you mean that {ko'a melbi fi lo ka broda} presupposes {ko'a broda}? Or do you mean that a ka-xukau returns a strictly binary value, while only a non-kau allows for fuzziness? In either case, I disagre= e. Also, I would translate to "in his greenness" instead of "because of his greenness". --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.