From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDetYTwBBoE_OHFjQ@googlegroups.com Tue Jun 21 15:27:59 2011 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QZ9QH-0000vJ-Cq; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:27:58 -0700 Received: by vws2 with SMTP id 2sf106443vws.16 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:27:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QApaMK4NbVmx1ekJnkDyq0y6YFSmXDkI9fY/mhzTT/w=; b=GybAhE8wWN8ulVqlGRD2/Gg/++erb6gaNuli/UBPzS/aIHJZ0r4ENtycyZ6WCJDawl hNFcgzHqqUJUhdTQlNlI118Xsligog11tbyYHaMK6jUyYkmyKhdMDV6b//l38CRpUGZq LuYMlzDv79fpE/g85EVn4c/LNltUdRtFcNHyU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=I1C2Uie+ExZeHMOzsFWEVQR28pAOItJErzrXITf76PruewG46v9R8RPaSd1nShp1D+ dA/IARXBmP0ac83M1GsxUD8+EwoeY7TbRzcLm+m2pyOaxh4fzzDmgwhtdqKPXsK6H4j7 2L8iIMiYtBR+jZ2KaPLG/iMcxiudqKh8ycM7s= Received: by 10.220.96.136 with SMTP id h8mr1155972vcn.3.1308695262829; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:27:42 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.52.179.138 with SMTP id dg10ls3181325vdc.2.gmail; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:27:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.178.131 with SMTP id cy3mr2633513vdc.21.1308695260803; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:27:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.178.131 with SMTP id cy3mr2633512vdc.21.1308695260793; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:27:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vx0-f176.google.com ([209.85.220.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ch6si5883671vdb.2.2011.06.21.15.27.39 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.176; Received: by vxd2 with SMTP id 2so308967vxd.35 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:27:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.181.164 with SMTP id dx4mr6554940vdc.183.1308695259550; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.181.234 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:27:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 19:27:39 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] non-ka properties From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2011/6/20 Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis : > > From the gimste, I would describe a se cipra as a pure ka, non-kau, > property. I consider a ka-kau a pure property, just not fully specified. > That is, in a cipra the te cipra is tested for whether it > satisfies a certain predicate, specified by the se cipra (or for how well > does it satisfy that predicate, in a fuzzy approach). The wording may suggest that, but it seems to be unnecessarily restrictive. Compare: pajni lo du'u xu kau ta glare "... determines whether that is hot." cipra lo ka xu kau ce'u glare kei ta "... tests the hotness of that." pajni lo du'u lo ma kau jimte ti "... determines what the limits of this are." cipra lo ka ma kau jimte ce'u kei ti "... tests the 'what are its limits'-ness of this." "... tests the limits of this." > Reading a ka-makau makes me wonder if the cipra is being interpreted > as some kind of measure of what stands in the place indicated by {makau}. A determination or assessment, yes, not necessarily a measurement. > ni'o > A second issue, which has been in my mind since I first considered > the kau approach: How does {ka broda} compare to {ka xukau broda}? > > (My current understanding still is that they mean the same) In the cipra case, or in general? If you think "cipra" has a "xukau" embedded as part of the definition of its x2, then it may be equivalent to use "lo ka" or "lo ka xu kau" in that place, but in general they are not equivalent. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.