From lojban+bncCIfp7ILVEBCP_YjwBBoE9GPmsA@googlegroups.com Wed Jun 22 12:12:27 2011 Received: from mail-pw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.160.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QZSqf-0001bk-6W; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:12:27 -0700 Received: by pwj8 with SMTP id 8sf680486pwj.16 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:12:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4SWn4YuqXuaZ8QmkP37XqEzqRyPWyroptx9Lo9+ZL7w=; b=m6NDBnk/azwM7VwJ4u080dDFmsSd+8+UEs5uhmA7u4sTo3IV1eRHCF0LGX3R+I2oua Khl962Vzl+M9kBVTAyEpi9qMocpI9+Cu8jSLr/eUEhxMxdUKJDq3h3sUPEGUo9p6mmsv EC/zcw+RPqjTZZQoH0sz+1Hes5lfYAMClgp9A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=KzmXSY6RG1ieHe1ZnKNcSt5dildtl+di7AJ01ZQQ0RlLO4ioF1YDW3jgu0aa/5rxaG 6bvnefOZdDzsAjeYDA6cfg+bXid46RsLvVerafIC+xIW872tJ/AQUlXITJ3khCsSDUZi 2f2BB4ZCepyxaGhoujLD47OBIjkl7BZjFK4kc= Received: by 10.68.0.4 with SMTP id 4mr188586pba.63.1308769935492; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:12:15 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.36.67 with SMTP id o3ls299461pbj.0.gmail; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.15.67 with SMTP id v3mr191712pbc.64.1308769933522; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.15.67 with SMTP id v3mr191711pbc.64.1308769933511; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pw0-f42.google.com (mail-pw0-f42.google.com [209.85.160.42]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f8si1822488pbc.0.2011.06.22.12.12.13 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of felipeg.assis@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.42; Received: by pwi4 with SMTP id 4so1686525pwi.1 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:12:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.0.105 with SMTP id 9mr697579pbd.346.1308769933336; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.48.102 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:12:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 16:12:12 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] non-ka properties From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Felipe_Gon=E7alves_Assis?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: felipeg.assis@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of felipeg.assis@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=felipeg.assis@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2011/6/22 Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis : > 2011/6/21 Jorge Llamb=EDas : >> 2011/6/20 Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis : >>> >>> From the gimste, I would describe a se cipra as a pure ka, non-kau, >>> property. >> >> I consider a ka-kau a pure property, just not fully specified. >> > > I consider a pure-ka a predicate with a variable argument, and a > ka-kau a function. At least, this is what I was asking for in my first > message. Perhaps you mean that the {kau} thing means "whatever > fits here"? > By the way, this is my main point of investigation. Some bridi appear to require a function in a specific place, others appear to ask for a predicate with a free argument. For example, in {zmadu}, it makes the most sense that the x3 should be a function with an ordered set as a codomain. In {mutce}, it makes the most sense that the x2 should be a function for whose codomain there is a notion of extremeness. Similarly for {mleca}, {traji}, {jibni}, etc. In these cases, a pure-ka could be understood as a shorthand for a kamakaujei. On the other hand, the x2 of {ckaji}, {cipra}, {sisku} and {simlu} is clearly just a predicate with a free argument. Stating a {ckaji} is just an indirect way to state the bridi obtained by applying the predicate to the x1. In a {cipra} you test how the predicate is true after substituting the x3. In a {sisku} you search the set x3 for an element that makes the predicate true, which certainly involves one or more {cipra}. Finally, a {simlu} is just the subjective version of {ckaji}. In all these cases. I can make no sense of the bridi when the x2 is a function. All the interpretations of a ka-kau there hereon given appear to be in a direction contrary to ka-kau expressing a function. I hope I could make my point clear now. mu'o mi'e .asiz. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.