From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDf5YnwBBoEExUyaw@googlegroups.com Wed Jun 22 15:55:38 2011 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QZWKe-00050I-Up; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:55:38 -0700 Received: by qyk31 with SMTP id 31sf1754587qyk.16 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:55:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3o/UfFrCmw+Q99xDB/7kNpJHculVmebH22AY+vaMmi0=; b=c5iHBwYNNVo32B0XY3Vg63fggiPoXTzeMRi2g3FPH9gWGqXcLQbfO33EFP9tIeLa8i 4tZ4BKjNAHXVs5bklM+rieo4ITM9h88RB9JEpQ78QMrrVYAumNty37ZweWmOLFZym2E3 8yN2eglvhKkz7P5K27kvRtJEKeklb2Pm90WtM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=ONfq1JIGK/Zzkz8A2igJq8uFpXDqEHm2nWpruI4fZpCwBDuXM1eM5vOS2ZWbS2tu37 nYULu1YqWYTQa06hNDQW+wHReaOj2CCQlggpZrLhcbbW2goFMvN1WER/L6bBWSTpvAxc B+cqMW+ZqLMjjv31oIhz94oBgjfrDtzo/GXDg= Received: by 10.224.27.137 with SMTP id i9mr176150qac.43.1308783327193; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:55:27 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.187.145 with SMTP id cw17ls271718qab.2.gmail; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.195.130 with SMTP id ec2mr1194293qab.29.1308783326386; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.195.130 with SMTP id ec2mr1194292qab.29.1308783326372; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vx0-f176.google.com ([209.85.220.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m21si865646qcz.0.2011.06.22.15.55.26 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.176; Received: by mail-vx0-f176.google.com with SMTP id 2so1430995vxd.21 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:55:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.98.33 with SMTP id ef1mr1800078vdb.23.1308783326109; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.181.234 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:55:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:55:26 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] non-ka properties From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2011/6/22 Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis : > > Stating a {ckaji} is just an indirect way to state the bridi obtained > by applying the predicate to the x1. Yes. But just as "kau" makes sense outside of a subordinate bridi, it can also make sense in these properties whose only purpose is to allow the raising of one of the arguments. > In a {cipra} you test how the predicate is true after substituting the x3= . But the subject of the test is the x3, not a predicate. You test the x3 in order to determine how true the predicate is. And "how true?" is what "xu" asks. Similarly you can test the x3 in order to dteremine how many legs it has, or what kind of food it likes to eat, or what species it belongs to, and so on, which correspond to non-xu questions. > In a {sisku} you search the set x3 for an element that makes the > predicate true, which certainly involves one or more {cipra}. I personally prefer to use a thing rather than a property in the x2 of sisku, as in "mi sisku lo mi santa", "I'm looking for my umbrella." But even if you prefer ka-sisku, you can still make sense of a ka-kau there= : mi sisku lo ka ce'u zvati ma kau kei lo mi santa "I'm looking for the where-is-it-ness of my umbrella." > Finally, a {simlu} is just the subjective version of {ckaji}. Yes. For example: - ro ta simlu lo ka no da tuple ce'u - ienai .i ro ta simlu lo ka xo kau da tuple ce'u kei mi "All of those seem to have no legs." "Nah, each of them seems to me to have however many legs they do have." mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.