From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBDr04rwBBoEiVhKqA@googlegroups.com Wed Jun 22 19:50:34 2011 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QZZzy-0005xD-B6; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:50:34 -0700 Received: by wwf27 with SMTP id 27sf3413750wwf.16 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:50:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=uVHkqZHtLN6i2c/ynJTjKqUBvjpqU/g9J3xAw6ExyeI=; b=NVZjkKoOC+V1WJBBJLeQu0bJZl3P1XxybTHTCAwrgHVWL09FwKR2HA16dYEMzVli5+ ethVZJxTqZ49t16vc5s4+31kN7wLbAroW+7S8Gg/dgxg+smT85pn5b/Nu7/5f36lAhAO 7dFfnyoF2Tma2OEnCFQO9Yod6l7zKARh09RhY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=EzOjip46VQ7l4tmReJ6w1Vd0E0dqEbau3hYbqnP9D3j3Ltu25+KWTWrlH13X/9MCi+ hFgo2oTsLOh6VVK7tOCXw2Q70lltr3fX65cjq3QBzUfTCFlpIsUK6C1Ii9MvQZpyEyTG Xw8UxSi/g3tmEpi966z6YjzA8ycc5iT35iZtU= Received: by 10.216.231.86 with SMTP id k64mr587182weq.26.1308797419971; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:50:19 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.9.96 with SMTP id k32ls624652wbk.2.gmail; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.23.196 with SMTP id s4mr99572wbb.10.1308797419159; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.23.196 with SMTP id s4mr99571wbb.10.1308797419077; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f182.google.com (mail-wy0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l4si1238275wbn.3.2011.06.22.19.50.19 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.182; Received: by mail-wy0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 33so1370831wyb.41 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:50:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.60.75 with SMTP id t53mr661548wec.3.1308797418764; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.50.77 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.50.77 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:50:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 22:50:18 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Lojban puzzles From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cdfd7ea3a7bea04a65825ed --000e0cdfd7ea3a7bea04a65825ed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Mmmm. Given that, I think the two words with the most subtle distinction are rinka and gasnu On Jun 22, 2011 10:45 PM, "Alex Rozenshteyn" wrote: > I should have clarified; I was asking about the difference. I can see how > their meanings are different, but there's some subtlety in the first place > that I feel I should have a better grasp of. > > Just to make sure I understood the example, I'll try to translate it to > English: > > Someone avoiding doing x isn't a volitional entity doing x, but who causes > someone else to do x. > > On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > >> Is this a puzzle or are you asking about the difference between zukte and >> gasnu? >> >> In case the latter: >> gasnu has x1 bringing about an event. mi gasnu lo nu lo fagri cu sisti -> >> I put out the fire. >> zukte has x1 doing a thing. mi zukte lo nu bajkla lo mi zdani -> I run to >> my house. >> >> The trick I use to keep them straight is that if it feels weird to have the >> x1 agent as one of the sumti in the x2 event, then it's probably gasnu. It >> doesn't always work but it usually helps frame the question. >> >> I'm sure one of the jbocei will chime in shortly and give a more >> technically precise distinction >> On Jun 22, 2011 10:10 PM, ".arpis." wrote: >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > Alex R > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --000e0cdfd7ea3a7bea04a65825ed Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mmmm. Given that, I think the two words with the most subtle distinction= are rinka and gasnu

On Jun 22, 2011 10:45 PM, "Alex Rozenshteyn= " <rpglover64@gmail.com= > wrote:
> I should have clarified; I was as= king about the difference. I can see how
> their meanings are different, but there's some subtlety in the fir= st place
> that I feel I should have a better grasp of.
>
&= gt; Just to make sure I understood the example, I'll try to translate i= t to
> English:
>
> Someone avoiding doing x isn't a volitio= nal entity doing x, but who causes
> someone else to do x.
> > On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is this a puzzle or are you asking about the difference b= etween zukte and
>> gasnu?
>>
>> In case the lat= ter:
>> gasnu has x1 bringing about an event. mi gasnu lo nu lo f= agri cu sisti ->
>> I put out the fire.
>> zukte has x1 doing a thing. mi zuk= te lo nu bajkla lo mi zdani -> I run to
>> my house.
>>= ;
>> The trick I use to keep them straight is that if it feels wei= rd to have the
>> x1 agent as one of the sumti in the x2 event, then it's probab= ly gasnu. It
>> doesn't always work but it usually helps fram= e the question.
>>
>> I'm sure one of the jbocei will= chime in shortly and give a more
>> technically precise distinction
>> On Jun 22, 2011 10:10 = PM, ".arpis." <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google= Groups
>> "lojban" group.
>> To post to this g= roup, send email to lojban@googl= egroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban+unsubscribe@google= groups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>&g= t; http://groups.= google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Alex R>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscr= ibed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
> To post to this= group, send email to lojban@goo= glegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>

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