From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRDW1pPwBBoE241KGw@googlegroups.com Fri Jun 24 12:54:11 2011 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QaCS8-0000Uk-Of; Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:54:11 -0700 Received: by qwh5 with SMTP id 5sf4129332qwh.16 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:54:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-smtp :x-ymail-osg:x-yahoo-newman-property:references:in-reply-to :x-apple-yahoo-original-message-folder:mime-version:message-id :x-mailer:from:x-apple-yahoo-replied-msgid:subject:date:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=UNgVBDz5eGYPxvJBMppEoS9IHjYmi3firn2YVH1JtU4=; b=L4ZuHSFZ0jhXL7CvMvD8yf1TeJeinOyVBCRXrcaGIF2I3g255W1Tn7Lc7Hz9i0z1OZ 0alr2OLSsBCY9wOVFYE1CkYuy0RQre8Ul2vVfSFRtB9R2l25Q0lKvfkRkWBKuAxJ7eO7 5PYvFHYX/K8VsXTQZq96lvwF6TPMkQE8W4iLY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-smtp:x-ymail-osg :x-yahoo-newman-property:references:in-reply-to :x-apple-yahoo-original-message-folder:mime-version:message-id :x-mailer:from:x-apple-yahoo-replied-msgid:subject:date:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=uOw1FuNVjQtgk/DeMcUBUUCQ8e7mhK5uRuwMEHanexKsf7GbCpUSA3aX6dELox4PJp wCP70rF3ZGC62ol4M2cZAYf3b1xcTkv7Xkpmuw7xSostk1+0my/1WTvkkRs4UTM9kmBe uO+dHdL8IxyyLHVY3x9EzWsArzNJiSjHT0VYk= Received: by 10.229.73.15 with SMTP id o15mr383711qcj.1.1308945238590; Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:53:58 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.187.71 with SMTP id cv7ls742515qab.1.gmail; Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:53:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.196.66 with SMTP id ef2mr3329613qab.22.1308945237866; Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:53:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.196.66 with SMTP id ef2mr3329612qab.22.1308945237855; Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:53:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp108-mob.biz.mail.ac4.yahoo.com (smtp108-mob.biz.mail.ac4.yahoo.com [76.13.13.229]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id k34si2504029qcj.3.2011.06.24.12.53.57; Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:53:57 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 76.13.13.229 as permitted sender) client-ip=76.13.13.229; Received: (qmail 27329 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2011 19:53:57 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.68] (kali9putra@99.92.108.41 with xymcookie) by smtp108-mob.biz.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jun 2011 12:53:57 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: xvGyF4GswBCIFKGaxf5wSjlg3RF108g- X-YMail-OSG: qje7fQ4VM1mil.1gnTG_VXdz.UXrn2TstIeiwpY0KeSWMul xGUt4Y8BMixLNj67OFjJk91rt6.joPQL2UbpXfoSZAU2shSXawWjJJt4tmIk KTrEnpKtVmrZIJeH1EtsLlwZGwI0o6o9JaHvR0Pgd0eriy.TXaqpHqhSEIJZ aLlZ_VCSHQHIhurLZw.XIk5RqyIvrQLklDE50Q4PS11fLIbMgBUbljVIND0e dOGcCO75nPXs9d3F4uN0Y31YuS408qQdQtxADl69l4J1JSgqqMbP4VIA5ggk oZdOvjijX16qt15gp2.VLJVSZOHPX4_8x6h77QeVUw6Sl8ZzOuaXl7XwumOM DoBJFyzI5u5haw2QUKzmOfOnwKfViygecZ6z5nCLAQ0aFtfy5tYbkU8MDjGQ K_133Df5_0ZSrtgxmnSAjPw5ikoQIuO_jbGKBAfZDpUt49JI1gKiJlhuqv5L sBLeo6Cmddw-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 References: In-Reply-To: X-Apple-Yahoo-Original-Message-Folder: AAlojbanery Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8G4) Message-Id: <291E68BA-659A-40DB-969C-57371FE6C4BF@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8G4) From: "John E. Clifford" X-Apple-Yahoo-Replied-Msgid: 1_8995917_AHnHjkQAAMi2TgO2SgtdkVEs5zM Subject: Re: [lojban] non-ka properties Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:59:05 -0400 To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 76.13.13.229 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ahah! So you are not actually on about bridi and the like per se but about= mekso, the undeveloped mathematical part of Lojban. And so, it is hard to= answer your questions directly, since we don't do even word problems well = (cf. Trying to write programs in Lojban). My problems following this discussion (aside from thinking it was somehow a= bout central Lojban) have come from what are to me strange usages: {kau} in= contexts that are not indirect question or even subordinate clauses, and {= ce'u} for what appears meant to be a bound variable in a lambda expression.= I suppose that these uses were legitimated at some time, but I have forgot= ten what they mean. Of course, I am also worried about casual sumti raisin= g, which seems to turn up in some examples. Sent from my iPad On Jun 23, 2011, at 17:55, Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis wrote: > 2011/6/22 Jorge Llamb=EDas >>=20 >> 2011/6/22 Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis : >>>=20 >>> Stating a {ckaji} is just an indirect way to state the bridi obtained >>> by applying the predicate to the x1. >>=20 >> Yes. >>=20 >> But just as "kau" makes sense outside of a subordinate bridi, it can >> also make sense in these properties whose only purpose is to allow the >> raising of one of the arguments. >>=20 >=20 > Could you point me where this general meaning of {kau} is explained? >=20 > Anyway, I guess {kau} is just not what we were looking for. You understan= d > what things I am trying to express, right? They are just functions, so th= at > I can use {zmadu} to say "f(x) > f(y)", {jibni} to say "f(x) is close to = f(y)" > and {traji} to say "f, restricted to X, has maximal/minimal value at x". = I am > just asking how to express f in lojban. >=20 > I really feel that this was the spirit in which these gismu were defined. > You talk about complex objects, and compare them with functions with > simpler, structured codomains. >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. >=20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.