From lojban+bncCKyEq_TBFBDrmJjwBBoEJvBscQ@googlegroups.com Sat Jun 25 09:27:38 2011 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QaVhl-00089N-Sj; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 09:27:38 -0700 Received: by gwb11 with SMTP id 11sf4561231gwb.16 for ; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 09:27:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:date:from:reply-to:to:message-id :in-reply-to:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=ium8V4lTs5ahhu2CTg8poLs2ncOyWxcLz0UJgu5wvow=; b=2Av8r41GCtpwOzGu1jp2BOOd9W13j0+iV//RRjPHWBscwFsgGANu/tUeuLNXzWg1aG N1Y09D0nJz2bX48OrqZBptKZBvwRRZ2uup7rq1uGTLhZgsgQi68vT3rscSjVQbuFXn6/ K+wv4wzZTc/YQiktMHSIISyko0XsifmJ3cdsU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:date:from:reply-to:to:message-id:in-reply-to:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=tOu/R1Gk3sbJqX9tBjOdFDTqSQgEKFSIp0Z8X/oiz0nZnTwhfCgX7eQz6DaQZYTS8L 0LZquc0Q1oY5mMWASPquzMgT1Xwlys7rj3WnK0sjPMtKVEqzT6C/0/CLAKUF6eyf94Dg xU+znVKzz2z6luOwrfe+iacTxL0D6CEHzzF8A= Received: by 10.90.249.24 with SMTP id w24mr239486agh.54.1309019243922; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 09:27:23 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.91.26.2 with SMTP id d2ls1102471agj.4.gmail; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 09:27:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.91.47.6 with SMTP id z6mr507638agj.13.1309019242923; Sat, 25 Jun 2011 09:27:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 09:27:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Muhammad Nael Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-ID: <13371065.380.1309019242143.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqlj18> In-Reply-To: <4E04FB5D.6060600@lojban.org> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: How it should have been. And how it could be. MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: muhammad.nael@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_379_15722884.1309019242142" ------=_Part_379_15722884.1309019242142 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Actually, it exists only as a communication medium between humans and AI=E2= =80=99s=20 so dominant at the time. Despite being an overused idea, its fresh blood=20 comes from its Arabic-Eastern culture POV that, to my experience, is very= =20 rare in the western -and generally the global- market. I=E2=80=99m currently working -if you'd call what I'm work- on (Renodre=CC= =81), a=20 fictional language another =E2=80=98entity=E2=80=99 uses in the story; it= =E2=80=99s, however, meant=20 to be a personal language that is subject to normal flaws of natural=20 languages. Its development didn=E2=80=99t help me in the logical human-AI l= anguage=20 thing. I understand that if a large institution funds such a large project, it wil= l=20 be greatly skewed in favour of its needs. However, how about seeking fundin= g=20 from several large institutions, each funds the aspect it needs (a bit=20 shallow I know), but with general guidelines laid out to prevent any from= =20 gaining advantage over the other, and to make sure it meets its purpose for= =20 public usage. If you can get academic support in form of linguists and mathematicians, I= =20 believe that although Lojban needed 25 years of development over Loglan=E2= =80=99s=20 30, *Loghnat *(a name I chose) would roughly take 10 years over Loglan=E2= =80=99s and=20 Lojban=E2=80=99s 55 with merely academic linguistic and mathematical suppor= t and=20 very little general public donations. Just look at the amount of advertisement and support Na=E2=80=99v=C3=AD get= s, just=20 because it was used in James=E2=80=99 Cameron=E2=80=99s gorgeous, shallow A= vatar! How in=20 life would primitive jungle-dependant life forms have *formal and informal = *sentences=20 in their language, let alone the tremendous amount of rules in it, they=20 haven=E2=80=99t had the time to write all this, have they? I=E2=80=99m one of the few who believe in pure-thought theory, although alt= ered to=20 replace language with visual clues instead of the=20 undefined-pure-thought-raw-material in which others believed, so I never=20 really had any interest in the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, although I=E2=80=99m= =20 beginning to change my mind. Google is currently funding several linguistic and artistic projects for=20 Egyptian graduates, maybe you know someone here who might be a possible=20 candidate to propose this to Google? I know it=E2=80=99s weird from to say = this=20 (living in Egypt and all!) but I=E2=80=99m afraid I don=E2=80=99t know any = suitable ones=20 here, I don=E2=80=99t know if you have any in your community however. I=E2= =80=99ll and check=20 the university but without promises. I=E2=80=99ll write the two follow ups later, I need to go. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lo= jban/-/Kv4YNCYroucJ. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. ------=_Part_379_15722884.1309019242142 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Actually, it exists only as a c= ommunication medium between humans and AI=E2=80=99s so dominant at the time. Despite bei= ng an overused idea, its fresh blood comes from its Arabic-Eastern culture POV th= at, to my experience, is very rare in the western -and generally the global- market.

I=E2=80=99m currently working -= if you'd call what I'm work- on (Renodre=CC=81), a fictional language another =E2=80=98entity=E2= =80=99 uses in the story; it=E2=80=99s, however, meant to be a personal language that is subject to normal flaws of natural languages. Its development didn=E2=80=99t help me in the logical hu= man-AI language thing.

I understand that if a large in= stitution funds such a large project, it will be greatly skewed in favour of its need= s. However, how about seeking funding from several large institutions, each funds the aspect it needs (a bit shallow I know), but with general guidelines laid ou= t to prevent any from gaining advantage over the other, and to make sure it meet= s its purpose for public usage.

If you can get academic support= in form of linguists and mathematicians, I believe that although Lojban needed 25 year= s of development over Loglan=E2=80=99s 30, Loghnat (a name I chose) would= roughly take 10 years over Loglan=E2=80=99s and Lojban=E2=80=99s 55 with merely aca= demic linguistic and mathematical support and very little general publ= ic donations.

Just look at the amount of = advertisement and support Na=E2=80=99v=C3=AD gets, just because it was used in James=E2=80=99= Cameron=E2=80=99s gorgeous, shallow Avatar! How in life would primitive jungle-dependant life forms have for= mal and informal sentences in their language, let alone the tremendous amou= nt of rules in it, they haven=E2=80=99t had the time to write all this, have t= hey?

I=E2=80=99m one of the few = who believe in pure-thought theory, although altered to replace language with visual clues instead of t= he undefined-pure-thought-raw-material in which others believed, so I never re= ally had any interest in the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, although I=E2=80=99m beginn= ing to change my mind.

Google is currently funding= several linguistic and artistic projects for Egyptian graduates, maybe you know someone here w= ho might be a possible candidate to propose this to Google? I know it=E2=80=99= s weird from to say this (living in Egypt and all!) but I=E2=80=99m afraid I don=E2=80= =99t know any suitable ones here, I don=E2=80=99t know if you have any in your community however. = I=E2=80=99ll and check the university but without promises.

I=E2=80=99ll write the two = follow ups later, I need to go.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/Kv= 4YNCYroucJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
------=_Part_379_15722884.1309019242142--