From lojban+bncCNCCoMTMDhCboJzwBBoE4V8LDA@googlegroups.com Sun Jun 26 03:55:36 2011 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qan01-0004Fx-Lj; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 03:55:35 -0700 Received: by gyg4 with SMTP id 4sf5590653gyg.16 for ; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 03:55:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=ry8QBx86U/XOIh70o/jAZDTxZOEZgIutg7wLsw855Dk=; b=BSOjEE9CDxvXVLTHu/9zwdTasRloZSM3kdbSG66pHtxC7cY2kBVNsHdUdWWfcM/Uv7 4KjthouklehS2A8EEUZMYOaxbno9qf4ZEVuyCYpS/o/5PvJ0X4mkLZ9YGbt94JKwmthu vVkmIaPMLqqYcupYcJv3SJc6llUu3epfe1fl4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=dyCCqhFocJd3L7o6EalWQlPLPoYvE1QbSO93X/5f+OQaLjS9cIVeqvEUUB/vrNCV6a AZJ/2cefoMn7EhGUq8LXIjZcnoB+WMA1lArYRG6QxeqGYUgoeemgVtdsz23KRmZbI19i Cs5jz8BcZrNcpY9bHPaH41au7LOMQWSvFkAiA= Received: by 10.236.81.230 with SMTP id m66mr486388yhe.50.1309085723678; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 03:55:23 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.160.132 with SMTP id n4ls4302527ibx.0.gmail; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 03:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.18.196 with SMTP id y4mr569359ica.12.1309085721774; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 03:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.18.196 with SMTP id y4mr569357ica.12.1309085721763; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 03:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pw0-f42.google.com (mail-pw0-f42.google.com [209.85.160.42]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n12si1762661icr.0.2011.06.26.03.55.21 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 26 Jun 2011 03:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.42; Received: by pwi4 with SMTP id 4so2650282pwi.15 for ; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 03:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.147.18 with SMTP id u18mr59290wfd.430.1309085721203; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 03:55:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.180.6 with HTTP; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 03:54:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <18295425.2260.1308825326908.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqie9> References: <18295425.2260.1308825326908.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqie9> From: Stela Selckiku Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 06:54:51 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] How it should have been. And how it could be. To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: selckiku@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=selckiku@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 6:35 AM, Muhammad Nael wrote: > Alright, Alright! Hey, wait, you live in Egypt? Um, how are things going over there?! > For all the gurus and regular Lojbanists out there, imagine you're back > where it all started, but with your current experience, how would you like > Lojban to be? I'm not sure if this answers your question, but I've always thought the biggest mistake made in the early history of Lojban was making too much at once. The whole gismu list and cmavo for every imaginable possibility were all invented and put in lists and then next everyone sat down to try to see if they could say anything with them. We're still catching up with that to this day. It's difficult to develop many lujvo because everyone's always studying our mountain of gismu. I think it would make sense to start a new language by releasing only a tiny amount of words at first, and then adding more very gradually on some sort of schedule. Each new batch of words would be explored, defined, refined, clarified, and digested before any more would be added. The life of a word is a body of imagery, pedagogy, references, puns & rhymes, repeated explanations of subtleties of meaning, deep relationships the word has with the whole language, not just a dry association between a symbol and a sketch of a meaning. > Or, imagine that you're using the current Lojban as a template > for creating the perfect logical language (as close to that), how would > you want it look like say, in year 2090? or a bit sooner if that's too far. The main way I expect Lojban to change in the coming years is to develop much more vocabulary. Particularly filling out the lujvo space, and also probably more fu'ivla and I hope some interesting zi'evla. Lojban feels like a language that wants to have a lot lot lot of vocabulary. We insist that every word has just one meaning. There's this sense that what you do is simply choose the word that means exactly what you're actually saying. But so far we mostly have these bland fuzzy gismu. I think Lojban will feel more like the precise language we imagine it to be, with words directly capturing all sorts of subtle flavors. People will always be saying, "You know what I think is the perfect word to describe that?" and then pulling out some rich obscure precise descriptive term. mi'e la stela selckiku mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.