From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRCbpp3wBBoEraQeEQ@googlegroups.com Sun Jun 26 08:41:28 2011 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QarSf-0004s8-8i; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 08:41:28 -0700 Received: by yxa15 with SMTP id 15sf5785931yxa.16 for ; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 08:41:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-smtp :x-ymail-osg:x-yahoo-newman-property:references:in-reply-to :x-apple-yahoo-original-message-folder:mime-version:message-id :x-mailer:from:x-apple-yahoo-replied-msgid:subject:date:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=hU2eKmCyN0v1jzuctI7bW0we99MJGtX2YHsizNjN3TE=; b=Hfn9Ij+UJPEno2MLk7jDcUe0T80JC8bMDiA3sSUoSsAZA9OEO1+UC+xgM0N6SBdhBI Lke0NJcjee93Hd5WKzrY3K6Q21FI5h5xoVDKkSCadRKNTduR+1FVtOtAZrSGbKVVd0qY C40KATW8sVUmkhSZ/Jc2uJ+rMJoqkT/4xVsz8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-smtp:x-ymail-osg :x-yahoo-newman-property:references:in-reply-to :x-apple-yahoo-original-message-folder:mime-version:message-id :x-mailer:from:x-apple-yahoo-replied-msgid:subject:date:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=CArq0pUmQKoD1EiHsDCjbGdkDUxedC1M3h3IjaxiZU+kAPvwk0wA2oVKi9DbtqjX3s IttEh6vwUTudmHZibw0SOxRGHA/qQfK99aHqJZuhZolceDDGMQs1kCUubY/02H8Y+9t8 X5a9DNEhun+mZYcJ3Ch41IyN35JpD91FS5kgQ= Received: by 10.91.62.14 with SMTP id p14mr477802agk.48.1309102875311; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 08:41:15 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.44.22 with SMTP id r22ls3309922ybr.2.gmail; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 08:41:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.136.106 with SMTP id v70mr2242079yhi.41.1309102874103; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 08:41:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.136.106 with SMTP id v70mr2242078yhi.41.1309102874087; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 08:41:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp113-mob.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (smtp113-mob.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.136.185.204]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id b63si2755400yho.6.2011.06.26.08.41.13; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 08:41:14 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.136.185.204 as permitted sender) client-ip=98.136.185.204; Received: (qmail 21204 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2011 15:40:13 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.68] (kali9putra@99.92.108.41 with xymcookie) by smtp113-mob.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2011 08:40:12 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: xvGyF4GswBCIFKGaxf5wSjlg3RF108g- X-YMail-OSG: .k1gzkgVM1nvLtZ5onakP7Wq2ZR1PWZ8tLm.BDXk.FTxKEZ M7Rd4w9xdeHo6e.jHb13bb4ZK6vZaAdo8d2d2r3W3YXloQlyr13_2Y0jM7je I2p9eKQEkriDa50AJrFnaXwfBAn4N7Yoxkw7ymkKFTv.RW2B9fMYDeFeJxi5 mQmhAcIWTQQopLzWEzgTq4ZQinybGx4XnY47jzpBgeHYE1TjN6vacURyzvFM lkAEHRAZfcbJ7nCG8hXiw1hDDC_S8ETmKI6me6mviVCayWVggiPLISfcOoaJ ALQ6K6KPitJILC4S4cG8j7u__6c5CjcD9OvC06SC7JKSNXyQhS4urs8LzMfw a3BAZhTXCnPUADqiVVkffClBWO3Hlj58gxG.XAEQbtx9WzLoCRpSZ6S8OT8M f675ouLoi3etfkxO3uTwJroCpBCne6v4WO9Rj4kuzEsbQxYlF6hCIIiMuYJk 6XvvhY9sFig-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 References: <18295425.2260.1308825326908.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqie9> In-Reply-To: X-Apple-Yahoo-Original-Message-Folder: AAlojbanery Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8G4) Message-Id: <15EC1040-532F-4250-B8BE-59AC34586F36@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8G4) From: "John E. Clifford" X-Apple-Yahoo-Replied-Msgid: 1_5875_AHnHjkQAAMWSTgcQIQDW/0+WDpg Subject: Re: [lojban] How it should have been. And how it could be. Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 11:45:28 -0400 To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.136.185.204 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This small vocal and growing may not be an ideal way to build a language, b= ut it is to learn it. Lojban seems to have followed Loglan in making memor= izing the thousand plus gismu a precondition for full participation. I see= that folks are getting away from that, but I am not sure there are useful = guides yet, Sent from my iPad On Jun 26, 2011, at 6:54, Stela Selckiku wrote: > On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 6:35 AM, Muhammad Nael = wrote: >> Alright, >=20 > Alright! Hey, wait, you live in Egypt? Um, how are things going over th= ere?! >=20 >> For all the gurus and regular Lojbanists out there, imagine you're back >> where it all started, but with your current experience, how would you li= ke >> Lojban to be? >=20 > I'm not sure if this answers your question, but I've always thought > the biggest mistake made in the early history of Lojban was making too > much at once. The whole gismu list and cmavo for every imaginable > possibility were all invented and put in lists and then next everyone > sat down to try to see if they could say anything with them. We're > still catching up with that to this day. It's difficult to develop > many lujvo because everyone's always studying our mountain of gismu. >=20 > I think it would make sense to start a new language by releasing only > a tiny amount of words at first, and then adding more very gradually > on some sort of schedule. Each new batch of words would be explored, > defined, refined, clarified, and digested before any more would be > added. The life of a word is a body of imagery, pedagogy, references, > puns & rhymes, repeated explanations of subtleties of meaning, deep > relationships the word has with the whole language, not just a dry > association between a symbol and a sketch of a meaning. >=20 >> Or, imagine that you're using the current Lojban as a template >> for creating the perfect logical language (as close to that), how would >> you want it look like say, in year 2090? or a bit sooner if that's too f= ar. >=20 > The main way I expect Lojban to change in the coming years is to > develop much more vocabulary. Particularly filling out the lujvo > space, and also probably more fu'ivla and I hope some interesting > zi'evla. Lojban feels like a language that wants to have a lot lot > lot of vocabulary. We insist that every word has just one meaning. > There's this sense that what you do is simply choose the word that > means exactly what you're actually saying. But so far we mostly have > these bland fuzzy gismu. I think Lojban will feel more like the > precise language we imagine it to be, with words directly capturing > all sorts of subtle flavors. People will always be saying, "You know > what I think is the perfect word to describe that?" and then pulling > out some rich obscure precise descriptive term. >=20 > mi'e la stela selckiku mu'o >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. >=20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.