From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRDKzp7wBBoEQugxuw@googlegroups.com Sun Jun 26 14:40:40 2011 Received: from mail-yi0-f61.google.com ([209.85.218.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qax4G-0004Nr-K8; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:40:39 -0700 Received: by yie12 with SMTP id 12sf5978077yie.16 for ; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:40:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf :x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id:message-id:x-ymail-osg :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=PEjcEpwpuONpGfv6v6+DYU/R3QzFkCnlScUJoYQl8X0=; b=k7FD60g0lhRIvB8SS3/ffK5Ft1ndbSZesqtgL6MaydVb4HJ3o5Ni7grjwxNGfP44WX x17vtynuoM/sm0bsJ2UuhJ5nszK++C2iKzo6tUTeWWpuesQQEGtmWBq59A9YQXiwXECZ INnF4UwcMPY2NGPjiT0mphlW5GqweA5uEzQZk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id :message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to :in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=S3yjAdJf0LFYsYdkttC2jYJRLx0BQPFWbiehmZfGWiVMZdMawgzaBVZnUq9hu3Bl2c bQVfKfETCPnQiFbVQATE4axIcxg8eRWASww0jwTlXRVMaJyZZU+vwQ5pMp3pz3ITfH0i M1h1/dDPZL8xjPUFsJyTRQC8gUO2kLIl4VuWM= Received: by 10.146.198.6 with SMTP id v6mr461963yaf.14.1309124426650; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:40:26 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.179.39 with SMTP id g39ls1093684anp.4.gmail; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.185.7 with SMTP id m7mr2542791anp.7.1309124423805; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.185.7 with SMTP id m7mr2542790anp.7.1309124423772; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm15.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm15.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.237.216]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id v1si4955852anh.2.2011.06.26.14.40.23; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.237.216 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.94.237.216; Received: from [66.94.237.126] by nm15.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2011 21:40:23 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.121] by tm1.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2011 21:40:23 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1026.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2011 21:40:23 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 475060.10749.bm@omp1026.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 84165 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Jun 2011 21:40:23 -0000 Message-ID: <217213.80341.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 0nHYPTYVM1kKq3LlyFXMZ3xP1NmJ6WP0ZG.J3v2UaQxatsC THDiitQx_prfXuSj4FYaVGZNetYR1U6ZQg6ERWqQKYA4IOp0lelOWbptzg5E RTjGK5dwGlt2X8BtJq79JfrGfm4RDvcQ0WY_j9aVJ6XtVPQ6N02Nctp0fCPK qb25JIdq9HLTH0.ehX_vTEGbZwlzLMaY3jVybuxXJtpOqNxq3kLqCS2fkG4W 8.o_s6qcJw3xKQq.gM5YUjNaCn02XliwdFPX9TEB_cIsVSKVkoaesGptfaGB ietKGTsup0QH0dJRhkcgos6RWZt5Hz_B9LzFs.W8srIzlZISk2MGs8NN4Z8E 74eqsI6hRNoXdfZKH6PiYisIXZLdakjkU9LeEn_.Y0t8IAC8U3jDKqAy1wA3 UxWpPsTj5_3LXCArdgLN8C09Qrnuz95VnrjseUVQsVdCFV5oq1pCz0L8lALn lku4QNRnbOlv_60gHlwUT204- Received: from [99.92.108.41] by web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:40:23 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/572 YahooMailWebService/0.8.111.304355 References: <5119524.4443.1309123692982.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbze22> Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:40:23 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] How it should have been. And how it could be. To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: <5119524.4443.1309123692982.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbze22> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.237.216 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-848800627-1309124423=:80341" --0-848800627-1309124423=:80341 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yes, though I may have gotten bogged down in some other point and missed your comments about learning vocab gradually -- or about building it gradually for that matter. ________________________________ From: mohamad na.el (I think) To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, June 26, 2011 4:28:12 PM Subject: Re: [lojban] How it should have been. And how it could be. Tip: use the flat view instead of the tree view when viewing long threads, this topic's thread is long. [la stela selckiku] > Alright! Hey, wait, you live in Egypt? Um, how are things going over there?! Apart from the government juggling their brains to satisfy the unsatisfiable masses, the jobs being terminated because the workers are 'demonstrating' most of the time and are expecting money to grow on trees, the mind-boggling number of 'free thinkers' who popped out of no where and are pretending they have a cause they can understand, we are pretty good! Don't alarmed by my sarcastic tone however, I'm merely letting it out. Me hopes it's the storm before the calm! >...the biggest mistake made in the early history of Lojban was making too much >at once. The whole gismu list and cmavo for every imaginable possibility were >all invented and put in lists and then next everyone sat down to try to see if >they could say anything with them. I imagine they wanted it to be ready, while not leaving it to the hands of time or users. It's a good point though, I'll it in mind. > The main way I expect Lojban to change in the coming years is to develop much >more vocabulary. ...... People will always be saying, "You know what I think is >the perfect word to describe that?" and then pulling out some rich obscure >precise descriptive term. That may be, but I think that the problem with Lojban is that it wants to satisfy everyone. If they focused on a particular use for Lojban while in development, and built upon that as they gained experience, maybe into another bigger project, maybe it would have been better. You just can't have words that tells one meaning each, and expect to have words that equate to every thing expressible, at least that's what I think. [clifford] >This small vocal and growing may not be an ideal way to build a language, but >it is to learn it. Lojban seems to have followed Loglan in making memorizing >the thousand plus gismu a precondition for full participation. I see that >folks are getting away from that, but I am not sure there are useful guides >yet, Sorry, what? Have you seen my earlier post? [Latro] > There's a flip side to this in that essay by ..... other than with regard to >things like jargon, or other highly specific things. I'd agree on that too. Although I do like to use modifiers often! PS. Has anyone seen 'mark'? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/nRG6yJkz624J. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0-848800627-1309124423=:80341 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, though I may have gotten bogged down in some other point = and missed your comments about learning vocab gradually  -- or about b= uilding it gradually for that matter.


<= font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2">
From: mohamad na.el (I think) <muhammad.nael@gmail.= com>
To: lojban@goog= legroups.com
Sent: Sun,= June 26, 2011 4:28:12 PM
Subject:= Re: [lojban] How it should have been. And how it could be.
<= /font>
Tip: use the flat view instead of the tree view when vi= ewing long threads, this topic's thread is long.
[la stela= selckiku]
> Alright!  Hey, wait, you live in Egypt? &nbs= p;Um, how are things going over there?!
Apart from the government ju= ggling their brains to satisfy the unsatisfiable masses, the jobs being ter= minated because the workers are 'demonstrating' most of the time and are ex= pecting money to grow on trees, the mind-boggling number of 'free thinkers'= who popped out of no where and are pretending they have a cause they can u= nderstand, we are pretty good! Don't alarmed by my sarcastic tone however, = I'm merely letting it out. Me hopes it's the storm before the calm!
>= ...the biggest mistake made in the early history of Lojban was making t= oo much at once. The whole gismu list and cmavo for every imaginable possib= ility were all invented and put in lists and then next everyone sat down to try to see if they could say anything with them.
I imagine = they wanted it to be ready, while not leaving it to the hands of time or= users. It's a good point though, I'll it in mind.
> The main = way I expect Lojban to change in the coming years is to develop much more v= ocabulary. ...... People will always be saying, "You know what I think is t= he  perfect word to describe that?" and then pulling out some rich obs= cure precise descriptive term.
That may be, but I think that the pro= blem with Lojban is that it wants to satisfy everyone. If they focused on a= particular use for Lojban while in development, and built upon that as the= y gained experience, maybe into another bigger project, maybe it wou= ld have been better. You just can't have words that tells one meanin= g each, and expect to have words that equate to every thing expressible, at= least that's what I think.
[clifford]
> This small vocal and growing may not be an ideal way to build a=20 language, but it is to learn it.  Lojban seems to have followed Loglan= =20 in making memorizing the thousand plus gismu a precondition for full=20 participation.  I see that folks are getting away from that, but I am= =20 not sure there are useful guides yet,
Sorry, what?
Have you seen = my earlier post?
[Latro]
> There's a flip side to this i= n that essay by ..... other than=20 with regard to things like jargon, or other highly specific things.
= I'd agree on that too. Although I do like to use modifiers often!

PS= . Has anyone seen 'mark'?

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