From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRCv76zwBBoErzaxpA@googlegroups.com Wed Jun 29 07:33:34 2011 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QbvpZ-0004uu-Uv; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:33:34 -0700 Received: by gyg4 with SMTP id 4sf1293779gyg.16 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:33:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id :x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references:message-id:date:from:subject:to :in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=b6EKVM3eEY24JkpydNwSZjSS/A99VLTaGZpZdFaXzbc=; b=6mch/mSlAl6JhYpdz88AIpD8rPsXQxI77cNJxm8/K2Ayc9VClx/lJiYilDrR7WuJax k3YpeUughJ7T7nQMkpB+u4lss62pBAeUFB9Ta68jxdtkEYu4xRKd6CTC1/uTh31O9LkG OncsSitcy/05mT6KtNZmcP+JubcnBFMkCgbBU= Received: by 10.91.204.37 with SMTP id g37mr98621agq.41.1309357999244; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:33:19 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.91.69.31 with SMTP id w31ls224802agk.2.gmail; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.105.198 with SMTP id k46mr555911yhg.49.1309357997250; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.105.198 with SMTP id k46mr555910yhg.49.1309357997228; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm6.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm6.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.237.207]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id b63si637312yho.6.2011.06.29.07.33.16; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.237.207 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.94.237.207; Received: from [66.94.237.200] by nm6.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jun 2011 14:33:16 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.106] by tm11.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jun 2011 14:33:16 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1011.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jun 2011 14:33:16 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 735670.90242.bm@omp1011.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 40643 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Jun 2011 14:33:16 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: kvXyZ64VM1kVKJ4gGbLC7LgSkejiG9.f48mopO1h4JapgRD .RP0UNlZ7ZjZE5BpQXEKpG334x.6ubogsCuHa10yLdCYnfaLvPbI4tV1.qPr X7a18xf.tavV7ybLAaieKciTxtx9A.oMdB0lUkRxNUJVBtxhevZ3xFlIfd46 ge.Af30MY1AZIOzc7G2tHX.k9fR7UAnV69uE.0kVMGDhAROk5bqIvi_TKmxz .hhKhHi641HyYURriWW3FeeWI4POO2rUClqlPYd1R9R8zpyG3arnLZtLVRkZ qnplpMThRXAwpc71SHHQOxsYYVHZIBwH5_lnpIjimgP6JxxxJdr8W_U73Mwf kQjrKaoq68.hAB7NmX9UmvOvuXj_W5OHx_zWR_6E3gcLY2mWsiYZ88f8W3r4 Kyl.243USKGZCvEzXXPuAzzqiEIVg.hZdppo3GaxdRGBI1Y3.Fg3SOlthXtF kgA5F6UIFTaMuCANd8OzyKYV7Ec3GEQErYAHE61sBoX3BSHXR091dfqLJihk tqaikvlUhRYWTkgQpOVqrwyCBzuriyF9lFVSW3q2xFMZ.mlTvyv44efJogA2 uopBlnsaAVry2 Received: from [99.92.108.41] by web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:33:16 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/572 YahooMailWebService/0.8.112.307740 References: <18295425.2260.1308825326908.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqie9> <0978f791-223c-4a08-9e67-a8cbf303beab@h17g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> <20110629054845.GN8547@digitalkingdom.org> Message-ID: <1309357996.97870.YahooMailRC@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:33:16 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: translations and pragmatism (was Re: [lojban] Re: How it should have been. And how it could be.) To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.237.207 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1334469954-1309357996=:97870" --0-1334469954-1309357996=:97870 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yes, translations are an important step. Lojban has starts on the first two things to get translated generally: portions of the Bible (Gen 11, Acts 2, etc.) and of the Dodejing (1 several times, a few others) . Alice is a fluke, since it is incredibly hard to get all the goodies in it, they being essentially Victorian British, and xorxes did an amazing job -- to be nit-picked forever after. And there are a few more things, though not as many as would be nice. But original works are also important, as better reflecting the nature and culture of this language (not muddling that of another), so get to work on that, too. What do you mean by "pragmatic" and related words? I have half a dozen notion flitting around in my head, none of which seem to fit very well. ________________________________ From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 8:53:13 AM Subject: Re: translations and pragmatism (was Re: [lojban] Re: How it should have been. And how it could be.) Yeah I need to get back into that. I think I got through the first 2 or 3 chapters before I felt the pain of my lack of vocab and gave up. I was loving it up till then though. Do you have any idea of when you think you'll call it "complete" or is it kind of an ongoing series at this point? On Jun 29, 2011 1:48 AM, "Robin Lee Powell" wrote: > On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 07:45:49AM +0200, Escape Landsome wrote: >> How were the mock rhyme songs of A's A in W translated ? >> >> Did you first translate the original rhyme song, then adapt to the >> parody ? Or, were the parody translated directly with no >> translation of the reference ? >> >> This is an important question. > > You'd have to ask xorxes, but you can read it at > http://lojban.org/~rlpowell/alis/alis.html > >> Well, at least, if there is a translation of A's A in W, there is >> *some* pragmatic of lojbanic expressions, > > -_- > > As the author of the longest Lojban work, the implication that it > can't be used pragmatically offends me. > > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Robin%27s+Palm+Writings%3A+la+nicte+cadzu > -- it's a bit of a mess right now in terms of web layout, but it's > none the less there, and quite pragmatic (even has a sex scene or > two, so far). > > -Robin > > -- > http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >"lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0-1334469954-1309357996=:97870 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, translations are an important step.  Lojban has star= ts on the first two things to get translated generally: portions of the Bib= le (Gen 11, Acts 2, etc.) and of the Dodejing (1 several times, a few other= s) .  Alice is a fluke, since it is incredibly hard to get all the goo= dies in it, they being essentially Victorian British, and xorxes did an ama= zing job -- to be nit-picked forever after.  And there are a few more = things, though not as many as would be nice. 
But original works a= re also important, as better reflecting the nature and culture of this lang= uage (not muddling that of another), so get to work on that, too.

Wh= at do you mean by "pragmatic" and related words?  I have half a dozen = notion flitting around in my head, none of which seem to fit very well.



From: Luke= Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 8:53:13 AM
Subject: Re: translations and pragmatism= (was Re: [lojban] Re: How it should have been. And how it could be.)

Yeah I need to get back into that. I think I got through the fi= rst 2 or 3 chapters before I felt the pain of my lack of vocab and gave up.=
I was loving it up till then though.
Do you have any idea of when you think you'll call it "complete" or is it k= ind of an ongoing series at this point?

On Jun 29, 2011 1:48 AM, "Robin Lee Powell" <= rlpowell@digitalkin= gdom.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 07:45:49AM +0200, E= scape Landsome wrote:
>> How were the mock rhyme songs of A's A in W translated ?
>&g= t;
>> Did you first translate the original rhyme song, then adapt= to the
>> parody ? Or, were the parody translated directly with= no
>> translation of the reference ?
>>
>> This is an= important question.
>
> You'd have to ask xorxes, but you can= read it at
> http://lojban.org/~rlpowell/alis/alis.= html
>
>> Well, at least, if there is a translation of A's A in W, = there is
>> *some* pragmatic of lojbanic expressions,
>
= > -_-
>
> As the author of the longest Lojban work, the imp= lication that it
> can't be used pragmatically offends me.
>
> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Robin%27s+Palm+Writi= ngs%3A+la+nicte+cadzu
> -- it's a bit of a mess right now in terms of web layout, but it's
= > none the less there, and quite pragmatic (even has a sex scene or
&= gt; two, so far).
>
> -Robin
>
> --
> ht= tp://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
&g= t; Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
> is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"> is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org= /rlp/
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscri= bed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, sen= d email to lojban@googlegroup= s.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@google= groups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--0-1334469954-1309357996=:97870--