From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRDPm63wBBoEAt8b4Q@googlegroups.com Wed Jun 29 09:08:01 2011 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QbxIw-0002FZ-Fy; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 09:08:01 -0700 Received: by gxk3 with SMTP id 3sf1359602gxk.16 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 09:07:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id :x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references:message-id:date:from:subject:to :in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=NG7ZNXmtsX+QMnpdEPO73rSuaMlRn6ih85uRK4CqRkA=; b=dyHttnbsRkaTIEd6qFFKOpDCZNu3mATKf2AR1TWOxUvxlJhJFIPKSLudtbk4H6GrL1 ypJAC+NfKZ8GfXTDkNh23G7KH3o71W6JXc9yrCTQPyqFjFnQyIEvbRFpzXzNqDLsr3Sb rFcVYTta1IeDuLZxYkFSYGBMCY5VRvljIW1vI= Received: by 10.236.183.163 with SMTP id q23mr117140yhm.60.1309363663676; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 09:07:43 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.91.144.7 with SMTP id w7ls404480agn.1.gmail; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 09:07:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.77.228 with SMTP id d64mr470467yhe.5.1309363659169; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 09:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.77.228 with SMTP id d64mr470466yhe.5.1309363659157; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 09:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm15-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm15-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.236.17]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id b63si683671yho.6.2011.06.29.09.07.39; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 09:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.236.17 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.94.236.17; Received: from [66.94.237.195] by nm15.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jun 2011 16:07:38 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.113] by tm6.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jun 2011 16:07:38 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1018.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jun 2011 16:07:38 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 872416.44610.bm@omp1018.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 34524 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Jun 2011 16:07:37 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: okmUOjIVM1lhlD8JR5OFjWuna8sXsG0VZbpIx4Ae6Uox4fx 1A2pE_Tkycs0e8MSYFIxuNSLfDZ_mav4wfinN97wFrQWpnl70yncLQ463pYQ 570A3H6gjnl0aGkpEngt6dWfY2.73WXMBKeWLsANyQGhjrZHalBJBEjxfMJH HP.v3sG3w1ixBK4yQkeEvU2NwNVJptj2vyMZEUPVoYHq3VHsLKPCH5N3.7vM CSjoQX7PescIAB4ZsXjgeumiq9vGs36E7A48JoFvnG8wxVBi476cXTpyGVAA vWUgEIUJ1i9htfvpVKdTDCB37_qHi9O1Ih5L4geL7EchFchD9UK354xdR5vo m.UulMwqwMy70oawMXYq9MVaRosXmKDkHOvXESBO3nxT8D_LKKgZtXeEOTXC F5rSKLAFT_SR_kITSpuzisSZKYphvZdGnSG0tbZPRKTw0KJfgWKQdh.FYqNR FuKwArsfqN2cUMjRQURy4g2pDnTL5j6xWEIES9lyXhA-- Received: from [99.92.108.41] by web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 29 Jun 2011 09:07:36 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/572 YahooMailWebService/0.8.112.307740 References: <18295425.2260.1308825326908.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqie9> <0978f791-223c-4a08-9e67-a8cbf303beab@h17g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> <20110629054845.GN8547@digitalkingdom.org> <1309357996.97870.YahooMailRC@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1309363656.23204.YahooMailRC@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 09:07:36 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: translations and pragmatism (was Re: [lojban] Re: How it should have been. And how it could be.) To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.236.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Oh, that sense. What people seem to be talking about pretty clearly goes beyond the formal sense of this into intertextuality (as in your examples) and general cultural icons. I wish that had another name, since formal pragmatics is in enough trouble without any help from Derrida et al. ----- Original Message ---- From: Escape Landsome To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 9:53:34 AM Subject: Re: translations and pragmatism (was Re: [lojban] Re: How it should have been. And how it could be.) "Pragmatic" is related to semiotics. In semiotics, there are three levels : Syntax, Semantics and Pragmatics Syntax tells us how to put words together, Semantics gives us their meaning once assembled, and Pragmatics tells us how they relate to "what we know about the world". The frontier between Semantics and Pragmatics is somewhat blurry, as for instance, a semantic import of the word "banana" would be "a yellow long curve-shaped edible fruit" but a pragmatic content would be that one slips over a banana peel in Merry Melodies, or that monkeys do appreciate them a lot... But why not put "yellow" and "curve-shaped" into pragmatics as well ? -- .esk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.