From lojban+bncCML0xpmUARCYu9TvBBoE61eaDQ@googlegroups.com Sun Jun 12 13:12:21 2011 Received: from mail-px0-f189.google.com ([209.85.212.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QVr17-0007ST-VW; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 13:12:21 -0700 Received: by pxi19 with SMTP id 19sf1876108pxi.16 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 13:12:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=i0dEGK100ILlGKNdZa0t20d0Ewhd0Bs5SNlJ37MpiPs=; b=S/ywtNrH0mUDKiO0gzaJNuyAhr1Eww/wXodP0IAvhkNOM64kwrjrHkCX4vetF9Q47r +Q20qqTMUD0nsbn0zyp8hZOFYo1vcc2RSCBso/oRJuSIX5sibIS1ZTnt9ncQIzKzLRSq GyCsZNlY0Gj6rn277v7z7qVstBF0d45x8ezEM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=S7qP4QQO366pabqXHtPAtJRAdN5iDzSSl2MWSAPhIxBygw/Lz9fx+DfIgiOtZTyfQ6 XUPv7k1dyBRMaSzxjgwWNL6WJU9gDWa0/Cx24Lb2lGhxSyJEnW4t78jsEqAa36/3W04O TsXhPvtuQYD/voszHhNMfX4NWHTfmD9hYNPG4= Received: by 10.68.7.227 with SMTP id m3mr613942pba.40.1307909528187; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 13:12:08 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.39.41 with SMTP id m9ls1133537pbk.2.gmail; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 13:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.27.1 with SMTP id p1mr873715pbg.11.1307909527233; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 13:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.27.1 with SMTP id p1mr873714pbg.11.1307909527196; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 13:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-px0-f182.google.com (mail-px0-f182.google.com [209.85.212.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c10si11864053pbn.1.2011.06.12.13.12.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 12 Jun 2011 13:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.182; Received: by mail-px0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 20so2457941pxi.41 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 13:12:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.56.33 with SMTP id x1mr1808263pbp.516.1307909527005; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 13:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.58.9 with HTTP; Sun, 12 Jun 2011 13:12:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20110319191714.GO17248@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20110319191714.GO17248@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 16:12:06 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Anyone remember what lerfu strings are actually *for*? From: Ian Johnson To: lojban@googlegroups.com, lojban-list@lojban.org X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec531469fc1698a04a5896ae6 --bcaec531469fc1698a04a5896ae6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 *Necro* I found a rationale for this when reading over some sections of the CLL: http://dag.github.com/cll/17/8/ In short, when writing out pinyin, this system lets you put in tone numbers. Any thoughts? Personally I think this is somewhat of a boundary issue if you will. mu'o mi'e .latros. On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Robin Lee Powell < rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > > Someone tried to do: > > rlpowell@chain> echo "panzi be ny ci mei" | camxes > text > BRIVLA > gismu: panzi > > This doesn't work because it needs boi: > > rlpowell@chain> echo "panzi be ny boi ci mei" | camxes > text > selbri3 > |- tanruUnit1 > | |- BRIVLA > | | gismu: panzi > | |- linkargs1 > | |- CMAVO > | | BE: be > | |- sumti6 > | |- CMAVO > | | BY: ny > | |- CMAVO > | BOI: boi > |- tanruUnit2 > |- CMAVO > | PA: ci > |- CMAVO > MOI: mei > > Why is that? Because otherwise it forms a "lerfu string". > > rlpowell@chain> echo "panzi be ny ci" | camxes > text > tanruUnit1 > |- BRIVLA > | gismu: panzi > |- linkargs1 > |- CMAVO > | BE: be > |- lerfuString > |- CMAVO > | BY: ny > |- CMAVO > PA: ci > > Which is useful for ... I dunno, reading out license plates? -_- > > Does anyone remember why this is a fundamental type? I'm guessing > "complicated mekso shit", but I can't even think of any examples > there. > > All the grammatical productions that use it: > > sumti-6 <- ZO-clause free* / ZOI-clause free* / LOhU-clause free* / > lerfu-string !MOI-clause BOI-clause? free* / LU-clause text LIhU-clause? > free* / (LAhE-clause free* / NAhE-clause BO-clause free*) relative-clauses? > sumti LUhU-clause? free* / KOhA-clause free* / LA-clause free* > relative-clauses? CMENE-clause+ free* / (LA-clause / LE-clause) free* > sumti-tail KU-clause? free* / li-clause > > tanru-unit-2 <- BRIVLA-clause free* / GOhA-clause RAhO-clause? free* / > KE-clause free* selbri-3 KEhE-clause? free* / ME-clause free* (sumti / > lerfu-string) MEhU-clause? free* MOI-clause? free* / (number / lerfu-string) > MOI-clause free* / NUhA-clause free* mex-operator / SE-clause free* > tanru-unit-2 / JAI-clause free* tag? tanru-unit-2 / NAhE-clause free* > tanru-unit-2 / NU-clause NAI-clause? free* (joik-jek NU-clause NAI-clause? > free*)* subsentence KEI-clause? free* > > operand-3 <- quantifier / lerfu-string !MOI-clause BOI-clause? free* / > NIhE-clause free* selbri TEhU-clause? free* / MOhE-clause free* sumti > TEhU-clause? free* / JOhI-clause free* mex-2+ TEhU-clause? free* / gek > operand gik operand-3 / (LAhE-clause free* / NAhE-clause BO-clause free*) > operand LUhU-clause? free* > > lerfu-string <- lerfu-word (PA-clause / lerfu-word)* > > ; ** BU clauses are part of BY-clause > lerfu-word <- BY-clause / LAU-clause lerfu-word / TEI-clause lerfu-string > FOI-clause > > free <- SEI-clause free* (terms CU-clause? free*)? selbri SEhU-clause? / > SOI-clause free* sumti sumti? SEhU-clause? / vocative relative-clauses? > selbri relative-clauses? DOhU-clause? / vocative relative-clauses? > CMENE-clause+ free* relative-clauses? DOhU-clause? / vocative sumti? > DOhU-clause? / (number / lerfu-string) MAI-clause / TO-clause text > TOI-clause? / xi-clause > > xi-clause <- XI-clause free* (number / lerfu-string) BOI-clause? / > XI-clause free* VEI-clause free* mex VEhO-clause? > > The xi stuff is particularily 0.o > > -Robin > > -- > http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --bcaec531469fc1698a04a5896ae6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
*Necro*

I found a rationale for thi= s when reading over some sections of the CLL:
http://dag.github.com/cll/17/8/
In short, wh= en writing out pinyin, this system lets you put in tone numbers. Any though= ts? Personally I think this is somewhat of a boundary issue if you will.
mu'o mi'e .latros.

On Sat, Ma= r 19, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:

Someone tried to do:

rlpowell@chain> echo "panzi be ny ci mei" | camxes
text
=A0 BRIVLA
=A0 =A0 =A0gismu: panzi

This doesn't work because it needs boi:

rlpowell@chain> echo "panzi be ny boi ci mei" | camxes
text
=A0 selbri3
=A0 |- tanruUnit1
=A0 | =A0|- BRIVLA
=A0 | =A0| =A0 =A0 gismu: panzi
=A0 | =A0|- linkargs1
=A0 | =A0 =A0 |- CMAVO
=A0 | =A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 BE: be
=A0 | =A0 =A0 |- sumti6
=A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0|- CMAVO
=A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0| =A0 =A0 BY: ny
=A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0|- CMAVO
=A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0BOI: boi
=A0 |- tanruUnit2
=A0 =A0 =A0|- CMAVO
=A0 =A0 =A0| =A0 =A0 PA: ci
=A0 =A0 =A0|- CMAVO
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0MOI: mei

Why is that? =A0Because otherwise it forms a "lerfu string".

rlpowell@chain> echo "panzi be ny ci" | camxes
text
=A0 tanruUnit1
=A0 |- BRIVLA
=A0 | =A0 =A0 gismu: panzi
=A0 |- linkargs1
=A0 =A0 =A0|- CMAVO
=A0 =A0 =A0| =A0 =A0 BE: be
=A0 =A0 =A0|- lerfuString
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 |- CMAVO
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 BY: ny
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 |- CMAVO
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 PA: ci

Which is useful for ... I dunno, reading out license plates? =A0-_-

Does anyone remember why this is a fundamental type? =A0I'm guessing "complicated mekso shit", but I can't even think of any examp= les
there.

All the grammatical productions that use it:

=A0sumti-6 <- ZO-clause free* / ZOI-clause free* / LOhU-clause free* / = lerfu-string !MOI-clause BOI-clause? free* / LU-clause text LIhU-clause? fr= ee* / (LAhE-clause free* / NAhE-clause BO-clause free*) relative-clauses? s= umti LUhU-clause? free* / KOhA-clause free* / LA-clause free* relative-clau= ses? CMENE-clause+ free* / (LA-clause / LE-clause) free* sumti-tail KU-clau= se? free* / li-clause

=A0tanru-unit-2 <- BRIVLA-clause free* / GOhA-clause RAhO-clause? free*= / KE-clause free* selbri-3 KEhE-clause? free* / ME-clause free* (sumti / l= erfu-string) MEhU-clause? free* MOI-clause? free* / (number / lerfu-string)= MOI-clause free* / NUhA-clause free* mex-operator / SE-clause free* tanru-= unit-2 / JAI-clause free* tag? tanru-unit-2 / NAhE-clause free* tanru-unit-= 2 / NU-clause NAI-clause? free* (joik-jek NU-clause NAI-clause? free*)* sub= sentence KEI-clause? free*

=A0operand-3 <- quantifier / lerfu-string !MOI-clause BOI-clause? free*= / NIhE-clause free* selbri TEhU-clause? free* / MOhE-clause free* sumti TE= hU-clause? free* / JOhI-clause free* mex-2+ TEhU-clause? free* / gek operan= d gik operand-3 / (LAhE-clause free* / NAhE-clause BO-clause free*) operand= LUhU-clause? free*

=A0lerfu-string <- lerfu-word (PA-clause / lerfu-word)*

=A0; ** BU clauses are part of BY-clause
=A0lerfu-word <- BY-clause / LAU-clause lerfu-word / TEI-clause lerfu-s= tring FOI-clause

=A0free <- SEI-clause free* (terms CU-clause? free*)? selbri SEhU-claus= e? / SOI-clause free* sumti sumti? SEhU-clause? / vocative relative-clauses= ? selbri relative-clauses? DOhU-clause? / vocative relative-clauses? CMENE-= clause+ free* relative-clauses? DOhU-clause? / vocative sumti? DOhU-clause?= / (number / lerfu-string) MAI-clause / TO-clause text TOI-clause? / xi-cla= use

=A0xi-clause <- XI-clause free* (number / lerfu-string) BOI-clause? / X= I-clause free* VEI-clause free* mex VEhO-clause?

The xi stuff is particularily 0.o

-Robin

--
http://singinst.org/= : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.loj= ban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this senten= ce is false"
is "na nei". =A0 My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
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