From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRCh4tnvBBoEA3gNfg@googlegroups.com Mon Jun 13 13:21:04 2011 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QWDd5-0005yT-6I; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:21:04 -0700 Received: by gxk3 with SMTP id 3sf556224gxk.16 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:20:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-smtp :x-ymail-osg:x-yahoo-newman-property:references:in-reply-to :x-apple-yahoo-original-message-folder:mime-version:message-id :x-mailer:from:x-apple-yahoo-replied-msgid:subject:date:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=AIMPpim47vSfQNcNXmSx6zUrqXocNS1fmYBUaPz6Gj0=; b=bi6Y1POSY4X6phOBEl9GeenTf57kpef44U7Egj2TWVEQ+UBAvw/Wm95uj8OUf9fBwv Ia82nlubBv92eUHi85j3g8oMjtlNt6q6cpeP9Y7GBWn7cdFkCkSIHb6zljt0nx6gCBWd siU93K9Ag3txNg/3f0AFOC0gd0CbMWbWK+eGo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-smtp:x-ymail-osg :x-yahoo-newman-property:references:in-reply-to :x-apple-yahoo-original-message-folder:mime-version:message-id :x-mailer:from:x-apple-yahoo-replied-msgid:subject:date:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=HPQj9BSR3hucm7cY5+bTEyHmnC8ppMV+XnscuOvC7GRatalXNm9WhDN79NXy6XrEyM SswiCKe8XlL9GLzHR4q3jgtJk9h1xjUpAE2Znb7bU4KNflnkHsYRl7FJ73VfUtdsWY1d EUj2W1HF/eoJqvS3kojTzc0bgSC5HsMXAFrWg= Received: by 10.91.102.2 with SMTP id e2mr591106agm.17.1307996449232; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:20:49 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.193.148 with SMTP id du20ls2579279ibb.2.gmail; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.141.7 with SMTP id m7mr2928548icu.37.1307996448054; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.141.7 with SMTP id m7mr2928547icu.37.1307996448045; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp105-mob.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (smtp105-mob.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.88.242]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id c14si2185459icn.7.2011.06.13.13.20.46; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.138.88.242 as permitted sender) client-ip=98.138.88.242; Received: (qmail 16365 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2011 20:20:46 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.68] (kali9putra@99.92.108.41 with xymcookie) by smtp105-mob.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jun 2011 13:20:45 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: xvGyF4GswBCIFKGaxf5wSjlg3RF108g- X-YMail-OSG: MgnNgVYVM1mb9Fb0IRqHa1zK3uIUkBHp4VClRcIntuG6Y7W ZXffPbJj9uTpGMDSQMPBKCHVpYrqQufrf2cZJGOrvsrZh77w1HJAUvEgUVLt oKNymhyDCjp6fKtn0PDyiUn9eyF_G.fsadvBlhCQXX.YXeMRHeSgaQPwtXsk PtLbOs2qpPTB40KinZx77QcvaLca_Rkm25vfN_RyAfl6Cr08OIz75SvHsvK0 oq7UqxXqIQ5W_0nrdOz8uJYNKS8f8w5QaVnme1qcg1s_lD..LcyYYU97Fo_. HZCFV0aL1b_6adySQbOmTfqztNHmSNiHaa8CzsYsoSaJnO.uEKwCgbJwG2ck 1u5gtgZ5SgOdUjcZd9l6DtZyz4v9IMTTc13u2pkOiE7ScUmWslDohwmCgS5D kK5UwlHDBWedtYkURy.kQCsNwYKmt9j8446x0VcRPjzBMbytHyAsXSWgqhkl ExmdiMDMQGqUv97E7u4U8EQokAszhiTeeCz6M4arARFpkxES6dIlb0rZT3WJ NsO00gLm_epGBk0igkV2RLZQoieqoy7_QYhTprQ-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 References: <20110613174139.GT9936@digitalkingdom.org> <20110613200021.GW9936@digitalkingdom.org> In-Reply-To: <20110613200021.GW9936@digitalkingdom.org> X-Apple-Yahoo-Original-Message-Folder: AAlojbanery Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8G4) Message-Id: <9565CBCE-3495-43B2-AA8C-017A3A781F8C@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8G4) From: "John E. Clifford" X-Apple-Yahoo-Replied-Msgid: 1_8895391_AHvHjkQAAScGTfZsZQAV9CiHjWw Subject: Re: [lojban] Hey xorxes: I need some tutoring. Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:25:06 -0400 To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.138.88.242 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "There are red roses" and "There are white roses". Xorxes will have a conn= iption, but my calcified brain works best with "A bunch of roses are red" a= nd "A bunch are white", since "lo rozgu" refers to some roses (maybe only o= ne) and the rules about the identity of reference of successive instances o= f the phrase are not spelled out (we can decide from context or ask, usuall= y).=20 "lo" is maximally vague: it doesn't say how the things referred to are rose= s or how they are red or white or they are related to all roses (existing o= r only being). Just "Roses are red" or "Students are rioting" Does that help? Sent from my iPad On Jun 13, 2011, at 16:00, Robin Lee Powell w= rote: >=20 > Yes, ke'a, sorry. >=20 > I'm trying to understand how "lo rozgu cu xunre" and "lo rozgu cu > blabi" both make sense in xorlo, and what that implies, because > apparently I've forgotten. >=20 > -Robin >=20 > On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 03:55:13PM -0400, John E. Clifford wrote: >> I'm having some trouble understanding your issue. Once I assume >> that 'ka'a' is a typo for 'ka'e' all your cited sentences seem not >> only unproblematic but basic. What am I missing? >>=20 >> Sent from my iPad >>=20 >> On Jun 13, 2011, at 13:41, Robin Lee Powell wrote: >>=20 >>>=20 >>> So I'm getting back into some seriously Lojbanning (I'm talking in >>> #jbopre pretty regularily, and almost entirely in Lojban), and >>> something came up, which was "lo lojbo ka'a prenu", which seemed odd >>> to me, and then I noticed the "lo rozgu cu xunre" example at >>> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri >>>=20 >>> So, I believe that "lo rozgu cu blabi" is also perfectly fine, and >>> I'd like to explain (again, I know; I'm asking as an unreasonable >>> favour :), either here or on IRC, how that works. >>>=20 >>> In particular, is xorlo {lo rozgu} do'a like {su'o rozgu} except >>> without the implications about existence and distributivity and so >>> on? >>>=20 >>> ta'o I thought of translating the above, but I've no idea what I >>> mean by "In particular,", and I don't feel like disecting it right >>> now; others should full free, though. >>>=20 >>> -Robin >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. >>> Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot >>> is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" >>> is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps "lojban" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@google= groups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lo= jban?hl=3Den. >>>=20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/loj= ban?hl=3Den. >>=20 >=20 > --=20 > http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. >=20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.