From lojban+bncCK30vq5WEMCN2u8EGgRgrbY9@googlegroups.com Mon Jun 13 14:53:18 2011 Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QWF4M-00060E-2R; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 14:53:18 -0700 Received: by pzk4 with SMTP id 4sf2325609pzk.16 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 14:53:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject :message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition; bh=xvmzS5BWOTSXCFcjL/V+Hd67tNG8ssNCSMBxGfIh+W8=; b=eNqGsUTyTHyPM0fEPmiWZ4zcgKe6psx94DdRFICzYGOT33YDdzaEQhrIIxBKqllHfl fWLNbWGwAfbRcaHP3OJHXcAIm6+H5TC38IcWT/RupwEkaDcM3HnCouzhoX718eAZZMUX ++2jaThAKRU6ZsEP1M85UOTk8tFd2c7ho77qk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; b=e4SP2d6/30Dh9/tL2It7BBaN3GH1XU2Dd/E0okdVWybchXWzQ/g1xaDIunWz5fWjtx Dwqw95CI47YAMhXy1UG5psUhIq1bwonCh47oTxrR9rMZX1v6dgAQeC3DeWLy5eIzkg74 mj7q4Fv6lRoMjs+WBKA6X/Qs6Q9dHAS2SCxbA= Received: by 10.68.5.168 with SMTP id t8mr452732pbt.4.1308001984184; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 14:53:04 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.39.41 with SMTP id m9ls1490062pbk.2.gmail; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 14:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.3.201 with SMTP id e9mr1104607pbe.77.1308001983562; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 14:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.3.201 with SMTP id e9mr1104606pbe.77.1308001983540; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 14:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org (digitalkingdom.org [173.13.139.234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c10si14683439pbi.2.2011.06.13.14.53.02 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 13 Jun 2011 14:53:02 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) client-ip=173.13.139.234; Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QWF48-000609-FE for lojban@googlegroups.com; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 14:53:00 -0700 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 14:53:00 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Hey xorxes: I need some tutoring. Message-ID: <20110613215300.GX9936@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20110613174139.GT9936@digitalkingdom.org> <20110613200021.GW9936@digitalkingdom.org> <9565CBCE-3495-43B2-AA8C-017A3A781F8C@yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9565CBCE-3495-43B2-AA8C-017A3A781F8C@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline It does. The phrase "roses are red", to me, means {lo'e rozgu cu xunre}, so that phrase as such doesn't help me at all. the rest of it did help, though. Thanks. -Robin On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 04:25:06PM -0400, John E. Clifford wrote: > "There are red roses" and "There are white roses". Xorxes will > have a conniption, but my calcified brain works best with "A bunch > of roses are red" and "A bunch are white", since "lo rozgu" refers > to some roses (maybe only one) and the rules about the identity of > reference of successive instances of the phrase are not spelled > out (we can decide from context or ask, usually). "lo" is > maximally vague: it doesn't say how the things referred to are > roses or how they are red or white or they are related to all > roses (existing or only being). Just "Roses are red" or "Students > are rioting" > > Does that help? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jun 13, 2011, at 16:00, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > > > Yes, ke'a, sorry. > > > > I'm trying to understand how "lo rozgu cu xunre" and "lo rozgu cu > > blabi" both make sense in xorlo, and what that implies, because > > apparently I've forgotten. > > > > -Robin > > > > On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 03:55:13PM -0400, John E. Clifford wrote: > >> I'm having some trouble understanding your issue. Once I assume > >> that 'ka'a' is a typo for 'ka'e' all your cited sentences seem not > >> only unproblematic but basic. What am I missing? > >> > >> Sent from my iPad > >> > >> On Jun 13, 2011, at 13:41, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> So I'm getting back into some seriously Lojbanning (I'm talking in > >>> #jbopre pretty regularily, and almost entirely in Lojban), and > >>> something came up, which was "lo lojbo ka'a prenu", which seemed odd > >>> to me, and then I noticed the "lo rozgu cu xunre" example at > >>> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri > >>> > >>> So, I believe that "lo rozgu cu blabi" is also perfectly fine, and > >>> I'd like to explain (again, I know; I'm asking as an unreasonable > >>> favour :), either here or on IRC, how that works. > >>> > >>> In particular, is xorlo {lo rozgu} do'a like {su'o rozgu} except > >>> without the implications about existence and distributivity and so > >>> on? > >>> > >>> ta'o I thought of translating the above, but I've no idea what I > >>> mean by "In particular,", and I don't feel like disecting it right > >>> now; others should full free, though. > >>> > >>> -Robin > >>> > >>> -- > >>> http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > >>> Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > >>> is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > >>> is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ > >>> > >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. > >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > >>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > >> > > > > -- > > http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > > is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.