From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRCwvtrvBBoEz_tiGw@googlegroups.com Mon Jun 13 16:37:37 2011 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QWGhH-00034j-EY; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:37:36 -0700 Received: by ywg8 with SMTP id 8sf8166685ywg.16 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:37:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf :x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id:message-id:x-ymail-osg :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=E4+EgPr0T9kJ9tS3oSxyVijgNfDYWbexPXA1/7yCjyo=; b=qdxPeL6fh6VFPRzloa9qC0q+dr99l/FL+d+EyU3WYytViuwLNvSAGogHCo34fZbW1U /4F2+B15+ZXLXDW0XmkI+FM7o9c4PdUoOTtDQm1g78uPiOkHNWKUry2dKXLmq4Jkh30U K3chBI1nze2k8qqP55xo6TpWP17uG6RvSFb6Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-yahoo-newman-property:x-yahoo-newman-id :message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to :in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=UfZIq3olld8S8Fs3B92d4BXHaY59wOCswLyU1CYpvieRlOpZZsN1CnpM7R3LIrbMex ClRCk79qKY+JLMLBGxK99X34gQdbxFS8vYZ0hEwcl8jsaFZX1vTdPCxsTgQ8k7ZUspXr paQDKkVl5jOKwO2Rs8laPfJQq+ohmvoR6bcdk= Received: by 10.236.190.34 with SMTP id d22mr501139yhn.13.1308008240935; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:37:20 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.151.122.11 with SMTP id z11ls3370738ybm.1.gmail; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.109.51 with SMTP id r39mr3221445yhg.7.1308008239997; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:37:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.109.51 with SMTP id r39mr3221444yhg.7.1308008239975; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:37:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm30-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm30-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.237.86]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id t44si2737261yhm.7.2011.06.13.16.37.19; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:37:19 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.237.86 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.94.237.86; Received: from [66.94.237.197] by nm30.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2011 23:37:18 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.96] by tm8.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2011 23:37:18 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1001.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2011 23:37:18 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 423730.37842.bm@omp1001.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 11357 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Jun 2011 23:37:18 -0000 Message-ID: <229777.90139.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 99mh3E8VM1nyn71oUtZoaGxcBwpjCKPfrIjlSA3TD74r25q uYnamVI6QPoI3WopWuPt3c0v_G9FaIMWSiRL9vNn8jLnw5F2TpzYwh5Y2.bb v7cisBrcj_Q.0YrzsyY.MH3EC_ylJaU_LMFTP3wRQmp6D1c_mZgob7xxw96q K7Bx1gMkDuye4VqStsc_tTVltZATiQvBiGW8gqdobuW7HkoXtKFh6CEUbCSj ylBs_G3SDFIkhUppGYMg40THUnkqNnGrCT50FXk9eoiz1rMaxXs9D3fQQSKS sg7axwEvAwvrofPl6bn0CS2vdE2MKkQMDG8sIbELkK_46.kx0BiYtz4U7KWs OWBQCEgaNsx_DAt9r7QGOvxdUPL.WniTHUGrYujasGqiXLN9XS8Vfvz5UP1G MpGL_96VpGH7cSDSZMimLOxxtsT2rotSVVPb7ZibAnWsOoySQxYk6QlbLdBZ ht6bylB6flL40mLe2RopuJTV7yva5gZJOm8C2xKpnAYGhLXHfh8lszJkONdj 19Pzt6C2n05o9ySUzHgMEYIzcOSxTOi2BdIp7_2di4nER94vrrf2OPW.sAf. Tg2ZnpOP5R7myj6J64A-- Received: from [99.92.108.41] by web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:37:18 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/570 YahooMailWebService/0.8.111.304355 References: <20110613174139.GT9936@digitalkingdom.org> <20110613200021.GW9936@digitalkingdom.org> <9565CBCE-3495-43B2-AA8C-017A3A781F8C@yahoo.com> <20110613215300.GX9936@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:37:18 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] Hey xorxes: I need some tutoring. To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: <20110613215300.GX9936@digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.237.86 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yes, I should have said, "The roses are red" to call attention to the contextual nature of {lo} (as with {le}). "Roses are red" does sound like {lo'e rozgu} or even {lo ro rozgu} (a Japanese tongue twister). ----- Original Message ---- From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 4:53:00 PM Subject: Re: [lojban] Hey xorxes: I need some tutoring. It does. The phrase "roses are red", to me, means {lo'e rozgu cu xunre}, so that phrase as such doesn't help me at all. the rest of it did help, though. Thanks. -Robin On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 04:25:06PM -0400, John E. Clifford wrote: > "There are red roses" and "There are white roses". Xorxes will > have a conniption, but my calcified brain works best with "A bunch > of roses are red" and "A bunch are white", since "lo rozgu" refers > to some roses (maybe only one) and the rules about the identity of > reference of successive instances of the phrase are not spelled > out (we can decide from context or ask, usually). "lo" is > maximally vague: it doesn't say how the things referred to are > roses or how they are red or white or they are related to all > roses (existing or only being). Just "Roses are red" or "Students > are rioting" > > Does that help? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jun 13, 2011, at 16:00, Robin Lee Powell >wrote: > > > > > Yes, ke'a, sorry. > > > > I'm trying to understand how "lo rozgu cu xunre" and "lo rozgu cu > > blabi" both make sense in xorlo, and what that implies, because > > apparently I've forgotten. > > > > -Robin > > > > On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 03:55:13PM -0400, John E. Clifford wrote: > >> I'm having some trouble understanding your issue. Once I assume > >> that 'ka'a' is a typo for 'ka'e' all your cited sentences seem not > >> only unproblematic but basic. What am I missing? > >> > >> Sent from my iPad > >> > >> On Jun 13, 2011, at 13:41, Robin Lee Powell >wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> So I'm getting back into some seriously Lojbanning (I'm talking in > >>> #jbopre pretty regularily, and almost entirely in Lojban), and > >>> something came up, which was "lo lojbo ka'a prenu", which seemed odd > >>> to me, and then I noticed the "lo rozgu cu xunre" example at > >>> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri > >>> > >>> So, I believe that "lo rozgu cu blabi" is also perfectly fine, and > >>> I'd like to explain (again, I know; I'm asking as an unreasonable > >>> favour :), either here or on IRC, how that works. > >>> > >>> In particular, is xorlo {lo rozgu} do'a like {su'o rozgu} except > >>> without the implications about existence and distributivity and so > >>> on? > >>> > >>> ta'o I thought of translating the above, but I've no idea what I > >>> mean by "In particular,", and I don't feel like disecting it right > >>> now; others should full free, though. > >>> > >>> -Robin > >>> > >>> -- > >>> http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > >>> Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > >>> is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > >>> is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ > >>> > >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >"lojban" group. > >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > >>> For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >"lojban" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > >> For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > >> > > > > -- > > http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > > is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >"lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >"lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.