From lojban+bncCNCCoMTMDhDOlObvBBoESsoS9Q@googlegroups.com Wed Jun 15 21:45:14 2011 Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QX4S8-0000jJ-H3; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:45:14 -0700 Received: by pzk4 with SMTP id 4sf763344pzk.16 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=nvXBP043CP2HKDlRIKSxQrd3MggTtZMeXsHeyMJilb8=; b=Etpl0oSfT3x1KlW/o7PxrnlFaP9Qd5Yr1GBfv2puFPhbuAW84l/VHH9U8StIEbHJZh 0Ap7TvE61hinH78N5xTavGeRsc6hajKKGh6jQBWCXih1aM1XnJIwx+6SVoKlr1zebNwk HB+2K+JWONp0jX4IoXh6Hc0NwoVnLvDKbaJSs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=EagAoNJo9eQ+PR2cB8dxPm1eLgyb2XzDDMxrG1ZZtHWug30HzTQmc9l8L9xyCUz2Y+ /MKQCdD8P7a4op5xx+9dK3OHg4MUGDUrN6nDNwIDt7SVu/OpLFth8rqnwcSFSe7ftGEB jrN7hKWnJwjdCenzVe1YCwMAgBHotXDFMM17M= Received: by 10.142.199.13 with SMTP id w13mr71682wff.48.1308199502850; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:45:02 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.39.41 with SMTP id m9ls412981pbk.2.gmail; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.67.232 with SMTP id q8mr77559pbt.75.1308199501413; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.67.232 with SMTP id q8mr77558pbt.75.1308199501398; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pv0-f178.google.com (mail-pv0-f178.google.com [74.125.83.178]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c10si2653373pbn.1.2011.06.15.21.45.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.178 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.178; Received: by pvg7 with SMTP id 7so1009377pvg.37 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.249.37 with SMTP id w37mr62497wfh.448.1308199501223; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:45:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.143.99.10 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:44:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Stela Selckiku Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 00:44:31 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Hesitation sounds in natural langauge To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: selckiku@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.178 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=selckiku@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 3:05 PM, .arpis. wrote: > > I have never heard natural (not scripted) lojban conversations, and to the > best of my knowledge, there is only one hesitation sound in lojban (ybu). You can hear some natural conversations in the old episodes of la tcati tcika. I forget what hesitation sounds we used. But I think there was probably a lot of ybu in there! In IRC Lojban-- and let's just note at the outset that I do not condone this activity, and indeed have told people I think they should stop it, but I'm just being descriptive for a moment-- there are at least two hesitation sounds, ".y." and ".yyyyyyy." The latter, which is usually spelled with at least five ys, is clearly distinguished from the former by length, which is taboo in Lojban for fairly good reasons. If you're right that it's more usual to have two hesitation sounds that could explain why this variation has persisted for years in spite of its condemnation. I agree with la .tijlan.'s suggestions, and also I would suggest that many of the uses of ".yyyyyyy." that I've seen could be sensibly replaced with ".y. .ua nai". In Lojban we should express uncertainty and do conversation management like turn taking explicitly, and have ".y." mean only and exactly that you are hesitating for a moment because you're considering what to say next. But realistically, there's a current of malgli habit to swim against in establishing that clarity. mi'e la stela selckiku mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.