From lojban+bncCK30vq5WEKfuuvAEGgQI9MQX@googlegroups.com Fri Jul 01 23:14:12 2011 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QctT0-0007yH-0E; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 23:14:11 -0700 Received: by pvc22 with SMTP id 22sf3059042pvc.16 for ; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 23:14:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=qrOX4kqyIyQ6bCpvV9WMHJeljJlX2UUWm1Xq8sHAaSw=; b=dLefUMWJZu2pFXVBakQPHkMVafCf2NgKA7mHVgR6gMlCjXJ8ViHtD421myA8I9GUdl 7pa+rhBalMdj8exAgoJmrTUuoc6eVOGSSyofbaWkYFeVGqUnu1gpQNn/rltBRbeSdcSc cIMqVjnPgn1z5liZBLzJElJYoqAgxyZlFcCTQ= Received: by 10.68.38.167 with SMTP id h7mr394190pbk.36.1309587239455; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 23:13:59 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.36.67 with SMTP id o3ls4397769pbj.0.gmail; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 23:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.24.3 with SMTP id q3mr878202pbf.85.1309587238916; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 23:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.24.3 with SMTP id q3mr878201pbf.85.1309587238906; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 23:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org (digitalkingdom.org [173.13.139.234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f8si8229602pbc.0.2011.07.01.23.13.58 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 01 Jul 2011 23:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) client-ip=173.13.139.234; Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QctSn-0007yC-Sm for lojban@googlegroups.com; Fri, 01 Jul 2011 23:13:58 -0700 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 23:13:57 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Is it a lie? Message-ID: <20110702061357.GH8547@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20110702023512.GF8547@digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline I don't see a significant distinction between "you are lying" and "you are being a deceptive asshole". -Robin On Sat, Jul 02, 2011 at 01:59:30AM -0400, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote: > That feels like a slippery slope to me, though. > > {.i do xu pu catra la .robin.} > {.i mi na catra ri to tu'a lo dakfu toi} > > pe'i lojban allows many more of these unsaid loopholes than English, to the > point where I'd consider it lying if you pathologically chose a {zo'e}, CA, > CAhA, etc. > > On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 10:35 PM, Robin Lee Powell < > rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 01, 2011 at 06:35:49PM -0400, Luke Bergen wrote: > > > So my question is, can an unsaid "zo'e" cause the bridi to be true > > > OR false depending on what the context suggests of the zo'e? > > > Clearly the kid is being dishonest but is he /lieing/? > > > > No. zo'e can never change the truth value of the sentence. > > > > *But*, without specifying CA and CAhA, it can kind of mean whatever > > you want. :) > > > > > It kind of reminds me of arguments I would have with my sister > > > that went like "but you said that you would take out the trash if > > > I walked the dog. -yeah, but I didn't say when" > > > > It's exactly like that. It's not false, it just makes you an > > asshole. > > > > -Robin > > > > -- > > http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > > is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > > > > -- > Alex R > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.