From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBDN8OLwBBoEQcK_iw@googlegroups.com Sat Jul 09 13:21:48 2011 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qfe25-00087l-4s; Sat, 09 Jul 2011 13:21:48 -0700 Received: by wwf27 with SMTP id 27sf5287621wwf.16 for ; Sat, 09 Jul 2011 13:21:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=TaM0wFMHWT1/UG0DsemK20y80BgBA3Ll+8BA+na5ytA=; b=0+0N4zCvwRgqzaO3s0c1nT9x2E7W9+P0GFTE6MvzZExXZdkOAHhwjgueO18d25BCZK 1sSMkrRQP3v9saOu9b62c642UMQflnFzZ9SaHyq62GmZyRw0pt1488xe+NA2sqOSirTK tx/6SRSbb3ORX+SRga1k6pZ2U7ydAUJ+GCaAA= Received: by 10.216.231.83 with SMTP id k61mr719902weq.18.1310242893574; Sat, 09 Jul 2011 13:21:33 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.235.213 with SMTP id u63ls4059986weq.0.gmail; Sat, 09 Jul 2011 13:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.236.216 with SMTP id w66mr117404weq.10.1310242892818; Sat, 09 Jul 2011 13:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.236.216 with SMTP id w66mr117403weq.10.1310242892765; Sat, 09 Jul 2011 13:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f180.google.com (mail-wy0-f180.google.com [74.125.82.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c25si3684311wbp.1.2011.07.09.13.21.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 09 Jul 2011 13:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.180; Received: by wye20 with SMTP id 20so1980615wye.25 for ; Sat, 09 Jul 2011 13:21:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.59.16 with SMTP id r16mr2910674wec.25.1310242892444; Sat, 09 Jul 2011 13:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.71.77 with HTTP; Sat, 9 Jul 2011 13:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.71.77 with HTTP; Sat, 9 Jul 2011 13:21:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201107090028.31171.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 16:21:32 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: xu dai From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd5d2622c752f04a7a8b27c --000e0cd5d2622c752f04a7a8b27c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 But is it? In "lo broda be ko'a" we know from broda what "be ko'a" means. Does the "broda" of "lo broda" really lose all of it's x2/x3/xn values? On Jul 9, 2011 4:15 PM, "Jonathan Jones" wrote: > No, it means less. > > That's why I used integral/derivative. The integral of the derivative of > 2x^2+3x+5 is 2x^2+3x+C. some information is lost in the process. > > me lo broda is "x1 is amongst those that are broda in aspect x2", which is > less meaningful. > > On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > >> It was an analogy. Don't take it as my cornerstone proof. >> >> If "me" means more than just the counterpart of "lo" then my bad. But I've >> always thought of "me" as being as generic as "lo" is. Meh, if "me" means >> more than the inverse of "lo" then I guess I've learned something today. >> Though I'd like to hear it from vlasisku or one of the jbocrecevni first >> On Jul 9, 2011 3:48 PM, "Jonathan Jones" wrote: >> > It's more akin to the integral of the derivative of a function, than it >> is >> > to the negative of the negative of a function. >> > >> > On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Jonathan Jones >> wrote: >> > >> >> me = "amongst those that are" >> >> lo cadzu = "something that walks" >> >> >> >> mi me lo cadzu = "I am amongst those that are something which walks" = >> "I >> >> am a walker" >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Luke Bergen >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Not so sure I agree. "me" takes a sumti and turns it into a selbri. >> "lo" >> >>> takes a selbri and turns it into a sumti. >> >>> >> >>> -(-x) is not "a kind of negative-ish x". It's just positive x. Period >> >>> On Jul 9, 2011 3:36 PM, "Jonathan Jones" wrote: >> >>> > mi cadzu = "I walk" >> >>> > mi me lo cadzu = "I am a walker (pedestrian)" >> >>> > >> >>> > On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 1:17 PM, ianek wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> On Jul 9, 1:17 pm, tijlan wrote: >> >>> >> > As for "Is it the general feeling that I'm the one who go?", I >> would >> >>> >> > more consider "ka'u pei mi klama" or precisely "xu kampu fa lo ka >> >>> >> > sidbo fa lo nu mi me lo klama". >> >>> >> >> >>> >> I think i saw a {me lo}! >> >>> >> Yes, I did! I did saw a {me lo}! >> >>> >> >> >>> >> How is {me lo broda} different in meaning from {broda}? (other than >> >>> >> {me lo} sort of cuts x2, x3 etc.) >> >>> >> >> >>> >> mu'o mi'e ianek >> >>> >> >> >>> >> -- >> >>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >>> Groups >> >>> >> "lojban" group. >> >>> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> >>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >>> >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >>> >> For more options, visit this group at >> >>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > -- >> >>> > mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >>> > >> >>> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> >>> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >>> > >> >>> > -- >> >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >>> Groups "lojban" group. >> >>> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> >>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >>> > For more options, visit this group at >> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> >>> "lojban" group. >> >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >>> For more options, visit this group at >> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> > >> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> > For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --000e0cd5d2622c752f04a7a8b27c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

But is it?

In "lo broda be ko'a" we know from broda what "be ko&= #39;a" means.=A0 Does the "broda" of "lo broda" re= ally lose all of it's x2/x3/xn values?

On Jul 9, 2011 4:15 PM, "Jonathan Jones&quo= t; <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote= :
> No, it means less.
>
> That'= ;s why I used integral/derivative. The integral of the derivative of
> 2x^2+3x+5 is 2x^2+3x+C. some information is lost in the process.
&g= t;
> me lo broda is "x1 is amongst those that are broda in aspe= ct x2", which is
> less meaningful.
>
> On Sat, Jul= 9, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It was an analogy. Don't take it as my cornerstone p= roof.
>>
>> If "me" means more than just the co= unterpart of "lo" then my bad. But I've
>> always t= hought of "me" as being as generic as "lo" is. Meh, if= "me" means
>> more than the inverse of "lo" then I guess I've lear= ned something today.
>> Though I'd like to hear it from vlasis= ku or one of the jbocrecevni first
>> On Jul 9, 2011 3:48 PM, &quo= t;Jonathan Jones" <eyeonus@gma= il.com> wrote:
>> > It's more akin to the integral of the derivative of a fun= ction, than it
>> is
>> > to the negative of the negat= ive of a function.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at= 1:43 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@g= mail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> me =3D "amongst = those that are"
>> >> lo cadzu =3D "something that= walks"
>> >>
>> >> mi me lo cadzu =3D &= quot;I am amongst those that are something which walks" =3D
>> "I
>> >> am a walker"
>> >>= ;
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 1:39 PM,= Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail= .com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Not so sure I= agree. "me" takes a sumti and turns it into a selbri.
>>= ; "lo"
>> >>> takes a selbri and turns it into = a sumti.
>> >>>
>> >>> -(-x) is not "a kind of= negative-ish x". It's just positive x. Period
>> >>= ;> On Jul 9, 2011 3:36 PM, "Jonathan Jones" <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> > mi cadzu =3D "I walk"
>> >= >> > mi me lo cadzu =3D "I am a walker (pedestrian)"
= >> >>> >
>> >>> > On Sat, Jul 9, 201= 1 at 1:17 PM, ianek <janek37@gmail.= com> wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >>
>> &g= t;>> >>
>> >>> >> On Jul 9, 1:17 pm, ti= jlan <jbotij...@gmail.com>= wrote:
>> >>> >> > As for "Is it the general feeling = that I'm the one who go?", I
>> would
>> >>= ;> >> > more consider "ka'u pei mi klama" or prec= isely "xu kampu fa lo ka
>> >>> >> > sidbo fa lo nu mi me lo klama".>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> I think i= saw a {me lo}!
>> >>> >> Yes, I did! I did saw a {= me lo}!
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> How is {me= lo broda} different in meaning from {broda}? (other than
>> >&= gt;> >> {me lo} sort of cuts x2, x3 etc.)
>> >>>= >>
>> >>> >> mu'o mi'e ianek
>> >>= > >>
>> >>> >> --
>> >>>= >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e
>> >>> Groups
>> >>> >> "lojban= " group.
>> >>> >> To post to this group, send= email to lojban@googlegroups.co= m.
>> >>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email t= o
>> >>> >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> >= >> >> For more options, visit this group at
>> >>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>>= ; >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >&= gt;> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > --
>> >= ;>> > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>> >>> >
= >> >>> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i d= oi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
>> >>> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. := D )
>> >>> >
>> >>> > --
>&= gt; >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed = to the Google
>> >>> Groups "lojban" group.
>> >>= > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
>> >>> > T= o unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> >>> > = For more options, visit this group at
>> >>> http://groups.google.com/grou= p/lojban?hl=3Den.
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>= ; --
>> >>> You received this message because you are sub= scribed to the Google
>> Groups
>> >>> "loj= ban" group.
>> >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
>> >>= ;> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> >>>= ; lojban+unsubscri= be@googlegroups.com.
>> >>> For more options, visit this group at
>> >= ;>> http://= groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>> >>>
>= ;> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> = >> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>> >>
>> >&g= t; .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo&#= 39;o
>> >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
&g= t;> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
&= gt;> > --
>> > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>> >= ;
>> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi pa= tfu do zo'o
>> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your fat= her. :D )
>> >
>> > --
>> > You receive= d this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "lojban" group.
>> > To post to this group, = send email to lojban@googlegroup= s.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> > For more options, visit th= is group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>> >
>>
>> --
>> You received this mess= age because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "lojba= n" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban+unsubscribe@google= groups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>&g= t; http://groups.= google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .= aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi= .luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your f= ather. :D )
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscri= bed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
> To post to this = group, send email to lojban@goog= legroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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