From lojban+bncCNCCoMTMDhCPmejwBBoEHc-c6g@googlegroups.com Sun Jul 10 13:33:35 2011 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qg0gz-0001i3-Qy; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:33:35 -0700 Received: by pvc22 with SMTP id 22sf1835411pvc.16 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:33:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=eb2i+3/skVo0ipc+1F0Zqm569e0eLs1wcwdwvD+a9P0=; b=2piHWKf1qLSNb9TqkZOJ3eQZ9ByWa6Iz4K5ss9zNwDN6gBjv43Rmrh6XaSB+P43rvI p9ZZEpYQBxzhYIivF3DyWRg6AVW3VRKWjGDP3QAu89yWNVn3XTgKNgFXarIe9y0o9orE Hxz8Q3OZ2F1sY9mA/nNgu79s2qp1TpOuTLSto= Received: by 10.142.250.6 with SMTP id x6mr372430wfh.61.1310329999190; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:33:19 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.68.39.97 with SMTP id o1ls2328167pbk.2.gmail; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:33:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.6.227 with SMTP id e3mr1030687pba.87.1310329998315; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:33:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.6.227 with SMTP id e3mr1030686pba.87.1310329998304; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:33:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pz0-f49.google.com (mail-pz0-f49.google.com [209.85.210.49]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c10si25372201pbn.1.2011.07.10.13.33.18 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:33:18 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.49 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.49; Received: by pzk28 with SMTP id 28so2865466pzk.8 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:33:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.143.4.14 with SMTP id g14mr1569949wfi.119.1310329998146; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:33:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.143.93.3 with HTTP; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:32:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20110710191911.GG18524@digitalkingdom.org> From: Stela Selckiku Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 16:32:48 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] UI affecting the previous word To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: selckiku@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=selckiku@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 3:38 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > > Like, it feels weird to be reading something and then go "oops, there's a > UI, go back and read that last word again but read it with a more 'hopeful' > voice" Well, theer's your problem, you're not thinking about it Lojbanically enough. In Lojban the basic bridi is the black lines and the attitudinals are the crayons. Right after you add each thing to the bridi, you get a chance to say what you feel about it, how it relates to what you're saying, or even to decide it wasn't right after all and {si} it away. It's part of the rhythm of making a bridi, lay down some rational lines, then emote why you cared about those lines, cycling back and forth. There are some other things that are afterthought. For instance {sei}, which is sort of the grandfather of the UI. And there's the NOI of course. I do see something in common in that bunch. They all add a new dimension to the bridi, relate it to the outside world. You make a basic bridi that relates a few things, but then you can hang a bunch more relations everywhere on it, decorate it like a Christmas tree, showing how it relates to you and the conversation with UI and connecting it to other bridi with the same referents with NOI. It's actually quite flexible in practice. The fact that the cmavo that construct the basic structure of the bridi, the articles and tags and so forth, are all forethought means that when using afterthought to decorate each construction you can either tag it at the end or you can tag it right after its forethought constructor, with only subtle differences in meaning. That is, you can either say {lo .i'e gerna} or {lo gerna .i'e} (or also {lo gerna ku .i'e}, which might be closer to the first). So making UI forethought would have made it less flexible where you could put them. Not that I know whether that was the original motivation. It is a rather ornate pattern. mu'o mi'e la stela selckiku -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.