From lojban+bncCO2dsrjkARDG5OnwBBoEgpEmgg@googlegroups.com Sun Jul 10 20:47:36 2011 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Qg7T0-0001Pm-6D; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 20:47:36 -0700 Received: by qwh5 with SMTP id 5sf4799560qwh.16 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 20:47:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=aUJsbpi8XfZpSiFW5J4c2wX8fhM3y4gNISduDZ4poww=; b=D9XIvsz14jQsHpENYNDgJyinht/HzHu/P+NDSzs7maDxHTFIcZnzwo+jJehZ0vONRz zMohdANkXAr3C2Y0wlkKWQk/rTzYM2NaaCfRimeW6vxql5t4ucXJR1InaqLPJyXI9cki V828wECTwcTu8ZS7bleWXRX2c8dcNG1EQVJ4o= Received: by 10.224.11.3 with SMTP id r3mr48529qar.52.1310356038989; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 20:47:18 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.181.73 with SMTP id bx9ls84939qab.6.gmail; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 20:47:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.200.197 with SMTP id ex5mr5716889qab.17.1310356038319; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 20:47:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.200.197 with SMTP id ex5mr5716888qab.17.1310356038310; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 20:47:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pi.meson.org (pi.meson.org [96.56.207.26]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id ix17si5419383qcb.3.2011.07.10.20.47.17; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 20:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 96.56.207.26 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of mark@kli.org) client-ip=96.56.207.26; Received: (qmail 25582 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2011 03:47:16 -0000 Received: from nagas.meson.org (192.168.1.101) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 11 Jul 2011 03:47:16 -0000 Message-ID: <4E1A7244.2080107@kli.org> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 23:47:16 -0400 From: "Mark E. Shoulson" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110428 Fedora/3.1.10-1.fc14 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: xu dai References: <201107090028.31171.phma@phma.optus.nu> In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: mark@kli.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 96.56.207.26 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of mark@kli.org) smtp.mail=mark@kli.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 07/09/2011 03:36 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > mi cadzu = "I walk" > mi me lo cadzu = "I am a walker (pedestrian)" No, I'm totally not buying this. (Yes, I read the rest of the thread). {mi cadzu} *does* mean "I am a walker". If there is a sense in which "walk" is not "be a walker", you need to spell it out more specifically if you're claiming that that is the distinction engendered by {me}. Stela Selkiku wrote: > {.i ti'e so'o jbopre ba klama la .bastyn. .i xu do klama} > "I hear some Lojbanists are going to Boston. Are you going?" > > {.i mi na me lo klama .i mi klama la .bastyn. mu'i lo drata ku'i} > "I'm not one of the goers. I'm going to Boston for another reason, though." This works because of the specificity of {lo} (being completely general, one of its uses is as a specific gadri; go figure). As you said, {lo klama} now refers to the contextually appropriate goer(s) we were just speaking of. But the clear way to say that you're not among them would probably be {mi na cmima lo'i klama}, which of course relies on the same contextual appropriateness, but I think is clearer in the sense of saying that of this set of goers, you are not a member. I never really liked {me lo} for this reason, and I'm finding myself thinking {me} should be left as vague as we can comfortably leave it. ~mark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.