I believe John's stance on this point (and I guess I half a= gree) is that {dai} does not say "you feel emotion X" it says "I feel empat= hy towards you with regard to emotion X" or something like that.

How can I say "YIKES... for you". At that point I'm ex= pressing a bridi involving "terpa" and not ".iidai". I do agree that = the jbocecmu (myself at the forefront) seems to have a habit of trying to u= se attitudinals as shortcuts for "you must be feeling X" instead of using t= he gismu that were made for such expressions.

But, I can also understand wanting to be able to expres= s as an attitudinal that idea of "I feel emotion X with you" almost as thou= gh your emotional state is such that I am joining in with it through you. &= nbsp;As in "lo do se rirni cu mutce stati tu'a lo pipno .o'adai"

On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:52 AM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm trying to figure all the various discussions under this label out.= Let me summarize what I understand and then set me straight.
1) Since 'xu dai' makes little sense literally, I take it it is an idiom of= some sort, apparently meaning "What is the appropriate UI to use here, wit= h reference to someone else?", I.e., "What would contextually defined so an= d so have used at this point in this sentence --suitably edited?" &n= bsp; So, 'mi xu dai klama?' asks you what someone (contextually you, = again, but I supposed there is a way to assign it otherwise) would have sai= d in the frame 'do ... klama.' (or maybe, in this case, 'la pycyn ... klama= '). The correct answer is presumably something like 'zo ui' ( with an= appropriate choice of UI). The answer which seems to be given is 'ui= ', which clearly wrong in two ways: it is now an expression of the responde= nt's response to being asked the question (or something like that) and not = someone's response to my coming and b) if it were to be that it would be de= ceptive since it would not actually express that emotion (in the usual case= ) but rather simulate it after it had gone away.

I disagree with this interpretation of {xu dai= }. Just like {ui dai} ascribes happiness to the listener, {xu dai} ascribes= questioning to the listener. This is little use except as a rhetorical dev= ice, but AFAICT it's the only consistent interpretation.

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